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Me neither, except Juve or RM. Winner of that match has a chance in my honest opinion.

Chelsea deserved it. Yes Barca looked very comfortable when Chelsea sat back and the game was played at a crawling pace but lets be honest Chelsea opened the game with 3 great goals, and Barca clawed 2 goals back thanks to very fortunate circumstances clear hand ball off a fairly harmless cross and then a hopeful ball into the box that was not dealt with which Ronaldinho made them pay dearly for. Barca's mouthpieces wrote a check their a$$ couldn't cash today and the result was the 2 main tools Ronaldinho and Rikaard acting like kids at the end of the game. Hopefully Sven and the rest of England will realise after today's game that Joe Cole belongs in the England team set up 2 goals, hit a post and was a constant pain in Barca's backside. Didn;t see the Man U game but after watching the first leg, it was cleaer to me that Milan were the better side. Oh well..

Grammy, glad to see you back. I thought for a moment you were that ghastly "GoReds" poster, but thankfully you're not.

I'm beginning to see what you mean about Joe Cole; he was brilliant today. Agree entirely about certain people mouthing off btw.

Was worried what would happen to this forum without the old regulars. How come you've been away so long?

It's always good to see my fellow United fans posting

Marko, things have been hectic here. Been working my tail off and now have a longer ommute to work since I moved outside Manhattan. I actually forget what the URL was to this board but found it on google today by using bineaz and windy as my search. Glad to hear you're coming round about Joe Cole and what about Juan Roman Riquelme at Villareal. Guy is unreal and must be up for Spanish POY. PErsonally Man U should learn from the Milan games and make a move for him in the offseason, his skill and vision is exactly what is needed to break a team like Milan down and his f.k's compare to Becks as well. You should have seen what he did to Barca 2-3 weeks ago. How is law school going, when do you finish?

Someone mention Joe Cole -- Grammy's Back :!:

At least Bineaz and Windy were good for something :P j/k. Riquelme? Well I haven't seen too much of him lately so can't comment, but I'll take your word for it. We STILL need a midfielder who can unlock a tight defence. We have some great young players but nobody in that mould.

Law school is going OK thanks, only on a 2:1 right now, but I think I could get a first with a little more application. Student bar is just too tempting even for an old man like me. I won't be finished for another 15 months or so; will probably go into the civil service instead of practice. Legal practice appeals less and less to me with every passing day.

Would kill to live in NYC btw. How far from the centre are you? Is the commute a real problem? I'm not too far from anything here, so I don't even drive and know nothing about commuting.

Bineaz, hows it going? I only found this place because of you and Windy's username. Everyone can thank you for allowing me to post my well-thought-out, on-the-money posts. ig one for Juve tomorrow huh? I see them going through, I see a ton of La Liga and Real are simply unimpressive.

Juan Roman and Diego Forlan yes Forlan, have nearly single handedly vaulted little Villareal into the CL. JRR has something like 15 goals although a few off pks and if assists were an official stat I would bet he would be the league leader. I'm not too upset about Man U going out because I was impressed by Milan's display although truth be told had Fortune had a bit of luck and Scholes had his shooting boots on we could have won that OT match. I live in Jersey City, NJ which is only 8 miles from midtown Manhattan. The commute is a good 45 minutes as I need to take a PATH train which goes underneath a river and then a subway. Manhattan is certainly the place for singles. The commute sucks cause the trains are packed and when you do go drinking in NYC it is tough to find a cab and when you do its $50 to get home in what is normally a $15-20 ride based on mileage cause no cab wants to go to NJ. My advice would be to practice for a bit and then do civil service. You wanted to do corporate law too as I recall and the environment (over here anyway) is so good for it right now. It may not get this good for another 6-7 years. If you want to live in NYC, starting sending resumes out. It is not that difficult, although it may well be tougher for law grads who may need to take some courses to sit for the NY bar. Are you interested in getting a US JD?

Congratulations to Chelsea.

What exactly was Ronaldinho unhappy about?

Ronaldinho was upset because he ran his mouth off before the match and now looked like a stupid jerk. I'm sure someone from Chelsea politely reminded him of this.

Marko, what antics in the first game were you talking about? The mysterious incident at halftime? What was that supposedly about anyway? Sounds like Mourinho being his usual bitch to me.

The game winner seemed to be a controversial goal as well... anyone see what happened?

That all sounds expensive for you, Grammy.

Yes, I am very interested in moving to the US and practicing there, but my gf doesn't want to so it's tricky. Like I said, I'm thinking more of the civil service and keeping my options open. Diplomatic service is something I have my eye on because of the diplomatic immunity and getting to travel around the world; I mean because I want to represent my country well abroad

If I do make any definite decisions, I'll ask the advice of you and the other guys on here though, if that's fine. Gotta convince the gf first though, hehe.

Marko,

Are you kidding me, lose the gf and marry an American chick. Instant greencard. Jersey City has saved me so much money, I would guess I will save $20K this year on rent, food and other expenses. But yeah NYC is off the hook. You should really look into coming over if thats what you want to do.

Campi, some claim the goalkeeper was obstructed on Terry's header. I couldn't see it. Barca showed zero respect for Chelsea leading up to the game. Mourihno if he thought Rikaard went into the refs locker room had a right to be angry, given the questionable sending off which up until then I hear Barca never looked like scoring in the Nou Camp. Just desserts if you ask me for Barca.

Glad to see Barca are gracious in defeat as well -> Eto'o added: 'The mood surrounding the Chelsea bench was ugly, their coach's (Jose Mouirinho's) expression was ugly.

'If Chelsea win the European Cup it would be laughable. They are not a good team, they scored three quick goals because we let them, but the referee was very lenient to them.

'They say he (Pierluigi Collina) is the best referee in the world, I think he is one of the worst.'

3 quick goals that we let them. Those were all good goals and Collina the worst ref? I actually thought he was given Barca too many decisions.

Controversial? Terry's goal seemed a British classic to me. Ronaldinho wasn't to be seen much in the 2nd half. What else? To beat Chelsea, you gotta be pretty dynamic nowadays. They're certainly not the best team of our lifetime, but pretty decent. Long bench doesn't hurt either. Sorry to say it, but in the modern game guys like Deco are going to exprerience grim and frustrating days more often than not, he's just too damn small.

Damien Duff isn't a giant either, but he's got enough energy in him to power half of all homes in Portugal.

Hello all.

Cule, who are you?

Some comments on Chelsea - Barça. Clearly the opinions on mouthing off and gamesmanship depends on who you were rooting for. There was a lot of tension in the matchup b/c of the all 'extra' stuff (I'm not blaming anyone for it - I'm just saying it was there). Even Mourinho said that he enjoyed this more than winning it all with Porto.

It was a fantastic match. I thought Barça was going to pull it off after getting to 3-2, but Chelsea were dangerous every time they got near the Barça goal. The controversy on the 4th goal -- and please don't tell me you did not see this -- was Carvalho interfering with Valdes' attempt to get to the ball. As a matter of fact, the Canal + commentators thought the goal had been waived off b/c the linesman called Collina over. I think it could have been called, just like I think the two yellows for Drogba were excessive at the Nou Camp. That said, I don't think Collina is to blame for the loss.

It sounds like the post-game problems came from someone calling Eto'o a monkey.

AC Milan look to be the most solid team in Europe at the moment. That said, I'm not sure too many teams will want to draw Lyon in the next round either.

BTW, the comments on Riquelme. Riquelme has been spectacular all season. He was unbelievable versus Barcelona. I think he and Joaquín have the most 'assists' thus far this season. Riquelme has been very, very good this season.

Looking forward to tonight's match at Delle Alpi.

¡¡Hala Madrid!!

Some Thoughts

Caught the first half of of Milan-Man U. and although they won 1-0 and had a nice share of chances, I am not that convinced as some of you are about AC Milan. With that much talent and those many opportunites they should have had a better aggrregate than 2-0.

Sure it makes me happy to see my man Crespo come thru again. I am almost ready to say it: big players make big plays in... But not yet. Still a few more games where the stakes are higher. But he does score almost consistently in European play.

I then switched to Chelsea-Barca and before the start of the second half I caught Ronaldinho's second goal. What a beauty. He is the most thrilling player today.

I was glad to see Chelsea pull out all stops and attack the way they did. Barca is a great team to watch but it is impossible this day and age for a team with such defensive shortcomings to advance in these tournaments once they go to the home and home series format.

If defense wins championships (And they do) then AC Milan is the favorite. The only problem I have with AC Milan is their attack. If they find a team who will match them in defense, they will have trouble.

Pram

True about Crespo. Let's wait and see how he performs when the quarters begin.

I understand why you feel that Milan should've won by more than 2-0 aggregate. But if you really think about it, the first leg was in Manchester. Milan came away with a 1-0 victory and could've easily came away with a 2-0 victory. Now in the 2nd leg at San Siro, Milan knows that all they need to do is draw. Granted, all Man U needed to do was score a goal at San Siro to make it interesting. But Ancelotti made sure that wasn't going to happen.

With a 1-0 first leg win, defense took priority last night for Milan and the offense definitely took a back seat.

I was very disappointed at Barca last night. Could someone explain Rikaard's tactics to me? Barcelona came out all guns blazing and on the attck from the word go. They went down 3-0 inside 20 minutes! It sounds like hindsight but you can not convince me that was the right way of approaching this match. They were leading the tie so surely should have adopted a more cautious approach.

Maybe someone can explain.

Juve-RM

Well it won't be easy tonight at Delle Alpi. Should RM score a goal, Juve would need to score 3 to advance. And that's the question I pose to all: will Real Madrid score a goal tonight?

That's not an easy question to answer. Juve has good defense. Fabio Capello has always coached his teams stressing solid defense. Would I be surprised if RM is shut out? Not really. But I would be less surprised should RM scored.

Now should RM score, does anyone here really believe that Juventus can score 3 goals? I don't. Juve's best chance at advancing will be shutting out RM and scoring 2 goals. I can see that happening.

Cas,
I saw have seen quite a bit of RM this season and they are a shadow of what they were. Their attacking quality is way below what one would expect from all those big names. Dare I say they are even boring at times. I think there could be big changes at the club next season. And the defense, well it still the same. Even Samuel looks like a p.o.s out there. Don't be surprised if Figo, Beckham, Carlos and Raul are all gone next season. Raul in particular has had a dreadful season. So in short, I don't expect RM to score, I expect Juve to score first, RM to open up and Juve to score again and advance.

Man U loses and Chelsea wins. There is no justice in this world I tell ya!!!!!

Grammy,

Glad to be of service. LoL, someone google palo and see if he comes back. But did you hear, windy may change his name to bigapple or mickeymouse. I'm alright trying to get to the warm end of a decent winter, like you watching my son grow.

Anyway, it's good to have the Euro matches again. Milan and Chelsea look on a crash course. As for today, as I mentioned on the calico thread, with Barca out Real has just that much more motivation to hold up Spanish honor (no team in the 1/4s?) and avoid looking up at Barca for silverware. We'll see. Will they come out like gangbusters?

On Milbn, remember they didn't have Shevchenko those two games and they were ahead in the tie coming in.

FORZA JUVENTUS

and Barca clawed 2 goals back thanks to very fortunate circumstances clear hand ball off a fairly harmless cross and then a hopeful ball into the box that was not dealt with which Ronaldinho made them pay dearly for

Whoa! you're dismissing Ronaldinho's goal as "fortunate circumstances"?

Caught the first half of of Milan-Man U. and although they won 1-0 and had a nice share of chances, I am not that convinced as some of you are about AC Milan. With that much talent and those many opportunites they should have had a better aggrregate than 2-0.

If defense wins championships (And they do) then AC Milan is the favorite. The only problem I have with AC Milan is their attack. If they find a team who will match them in defense, they will have trouble.

come on, Pramzan...we all know that with Shevchenko in there making good on all those chances, the aggregate would have been much more lopsided.

How many chances did Crespo and Rui Costa waste?

Bineaz, how old is your boy now? Windy was born in NYC I believe, it is a shame he is coming back as I think he belongs in Montreal:) but I guess since I'm on a work permit, my opinion doesn't count around here. Milan will only get better with Shev back and for that matter Chelsea will only get better with Robben and Drogba back. Milan's move for Cafu looks better and better as he has still got it. In terms of RM coming out like gangbusters, I have watched probably 10-12 RM matches this season, in eager anticipation of them coming out like gangbusters and putting on an entertaining show, but it generally doesn't happen. Their defence is really bad. As bad as Barca's is, RM is worse. They have this guy Raul Bravo who has played alot of late, and he truly belongs with a second division team. RM seems to be a poor road team too.

Zeke,

Hows it going dude? Ronaldinho's goal wasn't fortunate as it was a great shot. But the build up was a hopeful punt played into the top of the penalty area area which 2 Chelsea players watched, did not deal with it, and then gave the ball to Ronaldinho. Of course, he had a great deal to do to bury what was a great goal, all I'm saying is Barca were not exactly playing flowing football but yet scored 2 goals and were back in it without playing well.

what's up, grami?

I dunno about that......Barca weren't playing great, but even when they were giving the first 3 goals, I still think they had the bulk of the run of play.

And it amazed me how fragile and panicky Chelsea looked even when they had scored 3.

Zeke,

After Barca scored the second, it was a different game for the next 45 minutes and I thought Barca was thru. They looked so comfortable on the ball and Chelsea literally looked scared. In terms of giving away goals, Chelsea's 3 goals were a textbook lesson on counterattacking. Barca were caught in possession in the middle of the park and were badly burned. Thing is, when Robben comes back Chelsea are even better at doing that. One thing that would make me slightly favor Milan over Chelsea is that while I think Chelsea's attack is better, their D makes some huge screw ups at bad times. Terry gets hailed as a top defender but he makes big mistakes in big games, look at last year's CL and Euro's. If you watch the build up to Ronaldinho's second goal it is remarkable that Barca even had the ball. Milan would have either cleared that punt or comfortably headed it back to Dida.

Anyhow, hows everything up in Toronto? Been awhile since I was back. We got some snow here last night and its pretty cold. Is hockey dearly missed up there?

Shevchenko

That's a very good point: when Sheva returns (asuming he's in form) alot of those missed chances will be converted.

reds, I don't know how much "quite a bit" means but if you've watched Real at all this season you'd recognize a VAST improvement in the defense. We've had more shutouts so far this year than all of last year. Samuel may have started out the year as a 'p.o.s.' but he's coming around and the biggest improvements have come with the signings of Gravesen and Luxemburgo, who has made us much more defensively oriented. We may not be as intimidating on offense as other years but that said I don't think there's a better team on attack out there... maybe Lyon after seeing what they did yesterday.

As I said I would guess I have seen between 10-12 matches. I just checked and their D is the 2nd best in La Liga...... behind, ahem Barca. Read into that wat you will but I would bet that they average giving up over a goal a game versus CL opposition and teams in the upper half of La Liga's table. I also think if not for Casillas whom imo is one the best keppers in the world, it would be higher. You must be concerned about RM's season? They will not catch Barca leaving the CL as their only hope. Surely, you must think some moves need to made. Figo, Beckham, Carlos have to go, Raul needs to start getting treated like a player who is having a crap season and be benched, ZZ looks like his knees are done. Joaquin & Riquelme would be good options for Figo, Becks and ZZ. One very big positive for RM today is that as far as I know Nedved will not be involved. BTW I would agree that signing Gravesen was a very good move. All in though, I don't see RM getting a goal in Turin today.

Just because Barca gave up four goals yesterday and they're the best defensive team in la Liga you mean to imply that RM being 2nd means next to nothing? That's silly... In Liga matches, we concede just under 1 goal a game and in CL just over 1. Putting that into perspective, we average practically 2 in both league and CL, so if we can double our opponent's goals on average, I'd take that. I don't think we'll catch Barca at home, nobody has made any secret that all our marbles are now on the CL. Figo may need to go after this season, but not because he's having a bad year... he's been probably our most solid player- certainly our most dependable mid. ZZ is ailing no doubt, but I don't think we necessarily have to deal Beckham (we can, if the offer is right, but it's not like he's been dreadful). Raul has had a very bad year but he's the last guy I'd write off going into this part of the season. Also, you can't separate Casillas from our statistics- sure he's a great keeper, but that mere fact shouldn't diminish our numbers (unless he wasn't going to be playing tonight or later this season for whatever the reason).

Seeing as though Juve has scored only 6 goals in seven CL matches and that RM averages almost 2 a game, and that Nedved is either out or in bad shape, I feel confident. I think you'd get very good odds in Vegas for your bet that Juve scores 2 and RM is shut out, because looking at the stats and circumstances it doesn't look likely.

I guess Nedved is not playing.

Buffon; Zebina, Thuram, Cannavaro, Pessotto; Emerson, Camoranesi, Zambrotta; Del Piero, Zalayeta e Ibrahimovic.

vs.

Casillas; Raúl Bravo, Samuel, Helguera, Roberto Carlos; Gravesen, Beckham, Zidane, Figo; Raúl y Ronaldo.

3500 madrid fans on hand at the stadium... not bad considering it is a small stadium (on the order of 30 thousand if I remember correctly?)

BTW, a lot of people consider Buffon the best goal keeper in the world. Going by your earlier message, wouldn't that suggest Juve's defense isn't quite as strong as it appears? We certainly coulda had more than 2 in the first game....

Campi, sad thing is I think Figo has been RM's most consistent performer, but he has without question lost a big step 1 or 2. Raul looks disinterested yet they still play him, Ronaldo's attitude stinks and I can't recall the last time Becks scored direct from a fk. Real have been shut out 9 times this season of which 1 was in the CL and the remaining 8 have all been against teams in the upper half of the La Liga table. Assuming half of their 27 league games were against upper table teams, you're talking about being shutout 59% of the time when you play a good La Liga side. That is pretty crap. Anyhow checked the odds, here they are :Juventus 1 - 0 5/1 Draw 0 - 0 11/2 Real Madrid 1 - 0 6/1
Juventus 2 - 0 6/1 Draw 1 - 1 5/1 Real Madrid 2 - 0 14/1
Juventus 2 - 1 7/1 Draw 2 - 2 14/1 Real Madrid 2 - 1 12/1
Juventus 3 - 0 16/1 Draw 3 - 3 50/1 Real Madrid 3 - 0 40/1
Juventus 3 - 1 16/1 Real Madrid 3 - 1 40/1
Juventus 3 - 2 25/1 Real Madrid 3 - 2 40/1
Seems like the bookies assume if Juve gets the first goal, the second one is nearly guaranteed.

To me it looks like the odds of a Juve 1-0 or 2-0 are the same as RM scoring one goal (either 1-1 tie or 1-0 win). Considering we're the away team, those are pretty good.

I'm not sure what the importance is of your statistic differentiating between the upper half and lower half of the table. A point versus a mediocre team is the same as a point versus a good team, and I think it would be more frustrating if it were the other way around (i.e., we're losing or being shut out in games we're supposed to win rather than against more difficult teams). As it stands, we've been shut out in roughly 25% of our games, but almost all of those shutouts came in the league... and I'd be willing to bet a good portion of those games were games in which we sat out starters like Ronaldo, Figo and Raul after CL matches. Do you have statistics on games where we held the opponents scoreless? What website is that?

Campeones wrote:I guess Nedved is not playing.

Buffon; Zebina, Thuram, Cannavaro, Pessotto; Emerson, Camoranesi, Zambrotta; Del Piero, Zalayeta e Ibrahimovic.

vs.

Casillas; Raúl Bravo, Samuel, Helguera, Roberto Carlos; Gravesen, Beckham, Zidane, Figo; Raúl y Ronaldo.

3500 madrid fans on hand at the stadium... not bad considering it is a small stadium (on the order of 30 thousand if I remember correctly?)

BTW, a lot of people consider Buffon the best goal keeper in the world. Going by your earlier message, wouldn't that suggest Juve's defense isn't quite as strong as it appears? We certainly coulda had more than 2 in the first game....

Nedved is still clearing the cobwebs in his head from the match in Madrid. Will not be available to play until 20 March. The Juve lineup has Camoranesi and Zambrotta on the flanks. That should give RM some trouble if the two get their game on and make Figo and Beckham play some defense.

Delle Alpi holds 67K plus. Built for the 1990 WC, located in the middle of nowhere with a big track around the field, it has never endeared to either the Juve or Torino faithful. It will be refurbished in the next few years to bring the stands closer to the pitch and reduce the capacity.

OK, maybe it was the planned reduction of capacity I read about... or maybe it was that attendance at Juve games is surprisingly low.

Campi, I guess we don't see eye to eye, I was very surprised that assuming that it is fair to assume half of their league matches were against the 9 other upper table clubs, that RM have been shutout in over half of those matches. Good point though about the odds of RM tying it at 1-1. C'mon though, you aren't surprised about the 8 league shutouts against upperhalf teams?

Campeones wrote:OK, maybe it was the planned reduction of capacity I read about... or maybe it was that attendance at Juve games is surprisingly low.

Probably both. Fans have not taken favor with the stadium, the location, its lack of proximity to the action, etc. Juve has purchased the stadium and land from the City of Turin and will turn in into a Juve World, with stores, maybe a hotel, etc. The capacity will be reduced. Numbers thrown around have been as little as 30k and as high as 48k. The reduced capacity will mean higher ticket prices for big matches.