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Some Thoughts

Unbelievable that Real Madrid could not score a goal. Unbelievable. One goal would have been enough to get them thru.

Ronaldo is still dangerous. Did any of you see his run down the left side as he SMOKED Thuram and Cannavaro before taking a shot that Buffon barely got a hand on only to have the ball hit the post? He may be out of shape but he still has that great acceleration to smoke defenders.

Ibrahimovic is a bit of a choke, isn't he? He blew so many chances and towarss the end of the game, he made so many mistakes.

Del Piero marking Graveson??? LOL. Del Piero totally lacked pace last night.

As to the others, Beckham was non-existent. Roberto Carlos had a decent game almost scoring with that vicious free kick late in the game. Buffon was a bit lucky in getting his arm on it. Figo also had a great free kick late in the game that was just wide. Buffon thanked God after the shot as he didn't even move.

Zidane left me perplexed. He certainly was not at his best and I couldn't understand why he so often seemed overly cautious.

Which brings me to my final point: what in the hell was Real Madrid's strategy last night??? I mean, they looked as if they wanted to be this ultra conservative, defensive minded, defensively strong side, protecting a 1-0 aggregate lead.

Why didn't they come out storming for that goal? All they ever needed was one goal and Real Madrid with Ronaldo, Figo, Zidane, Roberto Carlos, David Beckham could not get it.

One other question, why was Zidane substituted for at the 74th minute???

Zidane doesn't have the legs anymore. He's been like that all year. He is good for 60 minutes a match. He was coming back from an injury and Raúl was coming back from a flu that had him lose more than 5 lbs. Why was he playing? I would have given either Owen or Guti the start over Raúl.

I agree on the Beckham point; I disagree on the Roberto Carlos point. I think he was awful except for that free kick. His passes were off, he rarely attempt lung runs at Zebina (something Solari did well when he came in).


Ibrahimovic did miss a couple that looked like 'sitters' - but the guy is very talented. I don't get to watch Juve that often, isn't he generally a good finisher?

Alma - No doubt that Ibrahimovic is very talented. He also has the advantage of being huge and for a man that big and muscular, he is very agile.

Is he a good finisher? Not really. But he is much better than he showed last night. He should have converted at least once.

As to Roberto Carlos, I said he had a decent game. Although decent is not Roberto Carlos like. He certainly has played and should have played better.

Pram

Yes. I'm more surprised that RM didn't score than anything else. When Trez scored I knew O/T was coming and then another Juve goal to put them through.

For as long as it took Juve to score, it was taking even longer for RM to score.

Nedved will return soon so watch out for Juve in the CL. Could it be a return to the 2002 final (Milan-Juve)? Or maybe it will be Inter-Juve or Inter-Milan? Still a long way to go.

Casati - Well, yes. giuve certainly is a major threat here. They have a solid defense (even if Real Madrid 2005 isn't the same as the 2003 version) and once Nedved returns they will be even stronger.

One other point: Capello certainly looks like a genius for subbing Trez in place of ADP, doesn't he? Everyone and their mother was expecting Zalayeta to come out. But Capello made the right move and took out ADP.

Trezeguet, when is all said and done, has performed well in big games; not all the time but he has performed well in big games.

Pram

I was following the game by reading the minute by minute blow on the Katawebsport website. When I read that Trez was warming up I wondered who would come out. I thought Zalayeta or Ibra, never ADP.

Just goes to show you why I'm no calcio manager.

I'm wondering what changed tactically when ADP came out. Did anything change at all?

Capello's Logic

This is what Capello has to say. To be honest, he may look like a genius but looking at the goals, Juve had some good luck. Hey good luck is better than bad but Capello has this team playing very conservative. Lucky for him, Luxembourg did the same with Real Madrid.

Capello: Juve earned it
Wednesday 9 March, 2005

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Fabio Capello maintains Juve fully deserved to knock Real Madrid out of the Champions’ League after 210 minutes of tense football.

“It is a deserved result and we played well against an opponent that had a real desire to get a victory here,” noted the Juventus boss after their 2-1 aggregate win.

“We also created plenty of chances, but unfortunately weren’t able to make more of them. Real’s only real opportunities were that Ronaldo upright and Roberto Carlos free kick.”

Zlatan Ibrahimovic, Mauro Camoranesi and Marcelo Zalayeta were wasteful in front of goal, but substitute David Trezeguet scored the crucial strike that took this tie to extra time.

“Trezeguet still isn’t 100 per cent fit and we agreed to put him in later because he is more effective when the tempo begins to drop,” revealed Capello.

The tactician made a surprise choice when he replaced captain Alessandro Del Piero with Trezeguet after just 55 minutes of play.

“Zalayeta works harder and is a more valuable asset in the air. Del Piero did his job, just as everyone else did, as this was a game where everyone had to come together for the result.”

There are now no Spanish representatives in the quarter-finals, while Juventus and Milan could be joined by Inter when they play their second leg tie against Porto next week.

“Over the two legs I definitely think we deserved to qualify. Real play well in the middle of the park, but I’d say we were clearly the better side,” concluded Capello.

Gianluca Pessotto stepped into for the injured Pavel Nedved.

“The team performance was at a great level and it’s one of those nights that make football worth playing,” said the defender. “We were aware of the difficulties, but Juventus have proved they want to go all the way in this competition.”

Pessotto revealed that Capello had predicted the tie would go to extra time and his tactical plans were based on that theory.

“The Coach said that we should attack, but not leave space at the back, as this was going to be a long game and the breakthrough could come at any moment. Real still created a few chances, but I’d say Juve were a step above tonight.”

“Our patience was the key, as we didn’t get nervous as the clock kept on ticking and maintained our concentration until we reaped what we sowed. We knew conceding a goal would mean going out, so the whole team performance was magnificent.”

Alma, the defence may well have improved from last year, but it still has some ways to go. If Woodgate ever plays he will certainly help as he used to be real quality, although that is going back some time. As I said, I knew RM wouldn't score in Turin. They have enough trouble scoring at home against relegation warriors in La Liga. They are completely toothless in attack. Maybe the Calcio fans are surprised but if they watched RM in La Liga they would know this team and its big names simply don't produce. They are not entertaining and they don't score goals. Week after week, the offense blows, even when they were on that winning streak, they get some lucky bounces that give them the 3 points. I'm surprised Luxembourgo didn't introduce Owen after Juve scored. The fastest player on the pitch should get more then 24 minutes in a 120 minute match and his pace alone could cause problems. Shame about La Liga, having watch quite a bit of it this year, it is a great, entertaining league. One has gotta favour the likes of Chelsea, Juve, Milan. I would say out of those 3 though, Juve had the easiest opposition.

Casati - What changed with Trez is that the giuve attackers moved more WITHOUT the ball. It created more holes and thus more chances.

Falc - Yes. giuve were a bit lucky in that Real Madrid looked awefully conservative. I still can't believe how cautious Zidane was.

redstrebble - Maybe giuve did have the weakest opponent but in all fairness, Real Madrid looked very good in the match at the Bernabeau two weeks ago against giuve. Sure they only scored one goal but they controlled most of the game (except the last 10 minutes) especially after Nedved got hurt.

I expected more of the same at Delle Alpi. Not to mention I expected them to come out putting all sort of pressure to score that goal that would have locked up qualification for the next round.

The thing is that Real Madrid will probably never be very good or excellent defensively. This club's philosophy and style has always been more about attacking than defending. As a result, even the best defenders in the world will have a tough time here because opposing players have a lot more to space to work with. The addition of Gravesen this year has helped in this respect. The last time we had a pretty good defensive team - winning a lot of matches by 1-0 scores - the fans complained about the side not playing attractive football.

Again, and I think you're saying the same thing, Real Madrid's problem this year has not been its defense - it has been the offense (although I wouldn't go as far as saying that week after week it blows or that the seven league wins in a row had a great deal to do with lucky bounces). I know you've watched a lot of these matches, but I - a very critical season ticket holder - have not seen the same things you've seen.

Madridistas are expecting big changes this summer. It will be interesting to see how much freedom Florentino gives Sacchi and Luxemburgo.

¡¡Hala Madrid!!

Alma, I didn't know you live in Madrid? Geez, what do the papers think? Yes, I think we are saying the same thing : the offense is the biggest problem. What I see when I watch Madrid attack is a very heavy reliance on Ronaldo to turn someting out of nothing. I see a Raul, who rarely gets involved with the build-up in attack, a David Beckham who seems to have a rock in his shoe whenever he tries to score direct from a fk and doesn't seem to fight and hussle like he used. Figo to me, seems to work the hardest, he actually comes back and still loves to take players on. Let me ask you this though, my favourite La Liga club Villareal in Riquelme have the Spanish POY this season and imo he is the most creative midfielder in europe who happens to also be a fk specialist. He is truly one of the players that could probably unlock a tight defense like Milan or Juve, yet Deportivo a 9th place club are the ones who are interested in getting him. Why not RM? Why doesn't Barca take him back, is it just because he doesn't have an EU passport. I don't understand why there isn't interest from Serie A either since that style of football suits him very well and imo he could get into Milan, Juve or Inter's first XI. I wonder if its this silly galactico mentality, despite the fact this guy was a super galactico when he was with Boca and put on a clinic against RM and Bayern in the ICC final. I would love for Man U to pick him but this stupid english mentality will write him off saying the EPL is not for him.

I've been living in Madrid for 3 years (I'm here on an expat assigment). I was born in Spain, but have spent most of my life in the US. I've been following Real Madrid since forever - ¡thanks dad!. Getting the change to live here and go to the Bernabeu with my son has been a lot of fun. Zidane is a player you have to have seen in person. Absolutley incredible. I consider myself very lucky.

The papers are calling for changes. Although critical, I would probably describe articles as nostalgic. They are saying thing like "it was great while it lasted" -- "this side brought us attractive soccer and three CL titles in five years" -- "the end of a fantastic run" - things along those lines. I think the criticism is all along the same lines: this side is slow, they seem to lack motivation and/or killer instinct, they are not very 'vertical' (doesn't translate well into english). Players like Roberto Carlos, Figo, Zidane, Raúl, and Ronaldo are on the firing line right now. I can't begin to imagine the rumors that will go around from now to the beginning of next season.

Riquelme has been fantastic this season. I haven't heard anything about Real Madrid being interested in him and I don't think he wants to go back to Barça.

Quote:
So in short, I don't expect RM to score, I expect Juve to score first, RM to open up and Juve to score again and advance.
-Grami.

I have to start putting my money where my mouth is.

You talk about money as it is but yeah. Can I consult you on the CLPT?

Gracias Campi, Alma. One final was worth more than a semi and early knock-out. One change has already arrived with [honestly I forget the guys name, he used to coach the Italian NT].

Didn't see the match, but Juve came through and on the shoulders of Capello, but also their CL MVP Zalayeta. This guy is pretty much a nobody but he's a veteran at Juve.

Leo, Dezz, it's still early. Now if we can get pay back from Milan.

For some reason. I think we're getting Liverpool in the draw.

It certainly was a great run... 3 titles is not something most clubs achieve in their history, let alone in 5 years. I think we probably could've had another one (2003?) with some more luck. And some of the best quality football ever... certainly the best I've seen in my lifetime. For all that, I am more than grateful so while disappointments are tough to take, I tend to put things in perspective and be more "forgiving". Remember that until 1998 we hadn't won the European Cup in over 3 decades... let's not start to take things for granted. Football is a very competitive sport, and it always will be. Still can't beleive Porto and Monaco played the final last year...

I think there will be changes in our team to the tune of half the core guys being replaced: I see Figo, Roberto Carlos (I'll be sad to see him go), and maybe either Ronaldo or Beckham gone over the summer. I'd say Ronaldo is more likely to leave. I think Zidane will stay for being the icon he is, although he might be relegated to bench duties. He will probably retire at Real, not too far in the future. I think Raul will stay due to his emblematic stature, and because many people would be furious if Perez dumps him. He's not in the same league as ZZ/Figo either, he's like 28 years old or something and still has good football (don't think his slump will be permanent). I suppose our two core guys in the back, Helguera and Salgado will stay because they've been pretty good and we have enough trouble finding the right guys for a solid defense, so why take out the 2 that have been working? I think Becks will probably also stay because he is still not that old and has plenty of high-profile appeal, which will be a driving point as long as Perez remains. Gravesen has succeeded so far and I assume he'll stay, and I hope Guti does with a few vacancies being left in the center... he can finally have a chance to shine out there. Not sure about Owen, he might stay if Ronaldo leaves but he's gotten very little playing time and he may want out, the club too.

I haven't seen Gravesen play so I'm not sure if he fills this role but in particular these last couple of years (most noticeably since Makelele left) we've missed someone of the Seedorf type. We have 3 creative and offensive minded mids: ZZ, Figo and Becks, but no one that is just a solid beast who can also distribute. Seedorf was a human wall when he played for us, so he gave us a defensive edge, but he also had a beautiful touch and supplied our strikers with loads of assists. I always thought it was a bad move to ship him out, but right now it is so clear we need something like that to make our team more "vertical", less stagnant and to connect our mids with our forwards.

Is it possible to get Joaquin, Reyes, Riquelme at this point... I don't know, probably tough. Florentino totally dropped the fucking ball in his player acquisitions before Gravesen. Let's see what this presumedly wild summer has in store...

RIP Real Madrid??????????

Proof that all good streaks come to an end, RM missed the quarterfinals of the European Cup yesterday for the first time out of all the years it has participated.

If you want to count on anything, count on this: we'll be back! And it won't take another 32 years...

HALA MADRID

Yeah right RIP Real. LOL.

I wouldn't be as gloomy as RIPping Real Madrid, but neither would I expect them to come back with something really refreshing to watch.

Throughout at least the latest decade they've been as good as the opposite side would let them to be.

High tempo, tough marking - that's all it takes to squeeze the last drop of oxygene from that team. Real Madrid is the Harlem Globetrotters in the age of Chuck Daly's Detroit Pistons. Pleasant to watch sometimes, but nothing really that you haven't seen before. Not that the likes of Chelsea are anything to keep you in awe.

Bineaz

Wrong wish. Your next assignment is Chelsea and you must prove that the subsidiary of a lousy business bleeding hundreds of millions of dollars every year is capable of obliterating the KGB money-laundering unit:)

Good luck and God bless.

I mean, I don't get it. You play an explosive and offensive game, win three continental titles in 5 years and a bunch of other trophies while the rest of the planet plays the same defensive cesspool soccer, and somehow you get chided for it... nothing you haven't seen before. Right, Lyon is right there with us, lol. Shouldn't we be saying this "nothing you haven't seen before" nonsense about, um... every team out there nowadays who plays the opposite way? And I like the line "they've been as good as the opposite side would let them to be"... funny, it seems that's the general rule for ANY team in ANY sport. lol... I guess looking at the results over that decade-long period of time, more often than not, the opposite side let us be as good as we wanted

RM these days is niether offensive nor entertaining, that is the problem. They are lunch bag let down for anyone expecting to be raised to their feet by the magic of Los Galacticos. Why is everyone hamming on Chelsea? They are quite entertaining to watch, I don't know how they got labelled an overly defensive side. They are just a solid team with a coach who emphasizes that even attack minded players come back. His midfield although at times has consistented of 2-3 defensive minded players such as Makelele, Tiago, Geremi and Smertin generally is Duff, Makelele, Lampard and Robben/Joe Cole. They average 1.9 goals for a game in the EPL and 1.9 goals for per game in the CL, they are hardly a bad or boring attacking team.

Campi

I'll grant you that over so many years your team had brought you much joy and pride, and indeed you have every reason to be proud.

Now, kindly allow me to stress again that at least for the past 2-3 seasons I didn't find anything spectacular about your team.

This is my opinion and my opinion only. Feel free to show no respect toward it.

But I'll repeat - high tempo and tough marking, that's all it takes to handle Real Madrid. Tactically speaking it's been a bore. I've got reason to believe that many fans understanding this game beyond the level of back-heel passes came to the same conclusion, though obviously such matters aren't decided by a popular vote.

I don't think we've been spectacular in the last 2 years but judging from your statement that "Throughout at least the latest decade they've been as good as the opposite side would let them to be", I don't think that's the time frame you were referring to. Otherwise my statements about the 3 titles don't make any sense because we haven't won anything the last 2 years. I just view this current team as the end of a very good run, and that's all. Everything good comes to an end, Porto's run did... and so will Lyon's.

Well, Campi...if there is one thing I'm certain about is that it wouldn't take 32 years again:)

Football isn't that good anymore as when Real Madrid won the top prize in 1966 and then was pushed aside a little by the new football powers. Real Madrid had always been good and visible enough, even when prizeless.

So, get some new blood and stop purchasing overweight dentally-challenged celebrities and English nobodies (in Matt Busby sense, not Madison Square) with a queer sense of choosing ridiculous names for their newlyborns:)

There IS such thing in life as sense of proportion. You don't need Michael Owen when you have Morientez...just one example. Buying Gravesen was the right decision, which from aside seemed like a stop-gap measure....But I'll stop right here...Who am I telling Real bosses what players to buy.

Campi, I couldn't agree with you more on putting this into perspective. I think the papers in Spain have tried to do the same thing, but the general feeling amongst Madridistas right now is crap.

While at the top of their game, the football played by this side was spectacular. Add to that the number of trophies this group brought home and I think they deserve a little more respect than what they are being shown. Most clubs can only dream of accomplishing what this group has accomplished - that is what fuels antimadridistas.

This side will look different next year and we'll be bitching about how long it is taking X new players to gel. I am confident this team won't be down for too long.

¡¡Hala Madrid!!


Regarding Chelsea, I did not find their football 'entertaining' at all versus Barça. I have seen them in league matches look very good, but I expected a lot more from them versus Barça. The bottom line is that when it comes to defining what is/isn't entertaining football, no one person's opinion is the right one - but when it comes to results there is no questioning who went through and who didn't. In my opinion, I thought Barça played well, they just were able to 'finish' Chelsea off in either match. The fact is that Chelsea went through as they were much more effective.

I will preface my next comment by saying that we have been awful this season and that Juve deserved to beat us. However, I will add that I do not find Juve's football entertaining either. It is very effective, but not entertaining. I enjoyed watching Ibrahimovic and Cannavaro, but not the side. Juve is more entertaining when a player like Nedved is 100% and they are probably as effective - if not more. Again, I haven't seen Juve a great deal so I will admit that my opinion isn't based on a great deal of evidence in this case.

¡¡Hala Madrid!!

So have the Real players started sniping at Luxembergo yet?

Imagine that - Real playing "Italaian Style" in euro football, and losing "Italian Style" as well......this is REAL we're talking about.

Surely they must be unimpressed with their negative tactics.

Alma, I think Juve definitely deserved the win on Wednesday but do you think they were better over the two legs? I'm obviously not the best one in position to answer that, but it seemed to me like our superiority in the first match was greater than Juve's in the second match.


Regarding Luxemburgo, I don't think many people know what he was trying to do. The players didn't help out much, since they were like robots out there just going through the motions, but Luxa definitely had a confused game plan (um... or lack thereof?). It's funny how quickly things change. We were riding like a 7 or 8 game unbeaten streak under him till the league game right before the Juve 1st leg, now he essentially loses one game and the rumor is that he's out. He was brought in to fix a situation, failed, and will be replaced at the end of the season. Whatever... nothing new at this club.

Campi, I think we blew it in the first match versus Juve. We were much better that day and we should've scored two or three. Taking nothing away from Juve, they played very disciplined football at Delle Alpi while we just seemed to be sightseeing.

I don't think Luxemburgo is to blame. Look, I would not have started Raúl (he was coming off a real bad flu). The guy looked drained and he still played 94 minutes! Add to that the fact that Guti did not start - by far our best player this season (excluding Iker) - and maybe people can question our coach. However, the issue seemed more about players' attitudes or lack of focus more than anything else. Luxemburgo has done a nice job since he's joined us. He needs a full season and, more importantly, a full offseason to put a new side together (with Sacchi's help).


¡¡Hala Madrid!!

I was just pointing out that it's funny how quickly things change in this club and people go from hero to villain. I don't think the blame lies with Luxemburgo, or that we lost because of him. I don't agree that he is completely faultless, however, for the players' poor attitude... as I mentioned in the Real thread, that's one of the important duties a coach has. I think that was always Vicente's main strength. Fair or not, I think there is a decent possibility we'll have a new coach next year.


Referee Anders Frisk retired today due to an avalanche of death threats he has received. Sometimes this sport is so shameful it makes me sick.

Campi, sorry to be pedantic but I don't think it was the first time RM failed to reach the 1/4 finals of the European Cup.

RM lost at the second round stage in 89/90 to Milan, in 78/79 to Grasshoppers Zurich, in 76/77 to Club Bruges, in 69/70 to Standard Liege, in 68/69 to Rapid Vienna and Barcelona in 60/61.

And RM lost in the first round in 62/63 to Anderlecht.

Sorry, I think what I read was in this history of the CL but I mistakenly wrote European Cup. That makes sense.

Forza Inter.

(R)


3-1 well done Inter. Onto the quarters. I hope you guys get Milbn.

Adriano finally came to life.....I didn't see the first goal, but his second and third were both quality finishes.

This game was closer than the scoreline indicated; and at the same time,, Inter could and SHOULD have won this game at 4 or 5 goals to 1. Veron is so wasteful....I really wonder what he's doing on the field...I also wonder what he EVER did on the field, and why teams saw so much value in him.

Anyway, Inter are thru, and looking at their next potential pool of opponents (non-Italian squads), I'd say that they have a decent shot....if they were to face Chelsea they could be in trouble.

Mancini really has been put in a positive light, but we should point out what little this very talented squad has achieved....I really think Mancini's been made to look good by the likes of CL victories on the shoulders of Adriano & Co. I still don't believe he's a good coach, and I still can't believe he's going to finish the season with Inter....but he is. His substitution of Martins late in the game was really stupid, and really careless.

Inter never employed any type of game plan today as their goals were from break-aways that left an offfensively comitted Porto caught at the back....That won't wash in the next round reguardless who they face. Mancini needs a game plan. Veron can't be anywhere near the field.

yup, Mancini should definitely be fired, even though he's only lost one game as Inter's coach. ok.

And how could you complain about the Martins' sub? It worked beautifully, and caused their backline all sorts of trouble.

As for today's game, Inter's early goal expectedly caused them to sit back for most of the 1st half, and despite possession, Porto didn't really threaten much.

But then Porto came out on fire to start the second, and really dominated play for the first 10 minutes of the 2nd half, and had 3 or 4 great chances to score....thankfully, Inter then woke up, and absolutely dominated the last half hour of play. They could easily have scored 5 or 6 goals with some better finish and a less retarded line judge.

Funnily enough, though, it was in this period of dominance that Inter conceded their one goal off a set piece. typical.

Javier Zanetti was unreal today, on both ends.....I'm used to typically stellar performances from him, but he was awesome today. Veron was off and on, but he ended up being the one making the gamebreaking pass for Adriano's 2nd goal. Stankovic struggled all day.

As for Adriano - simply awesome. Funny how he's abslutely useless with the right foot. I don't think there's another striker in the world that would have taken that 2nd goal shot with his left.

Beh. Don't know if Mancini should be fired but I really don't think he's all that.

Porto were pretty pathetic defensively. Too many open spaces and they screwed their off-sides trap up so many times it wasn't funny. They certainly can not perform as well as they did defensively last year when they went on to lose their coach, their top defender and a couple of other key players.

Adriano had a great game even if it was at the expense of that pathetic defense. That second goal was a beauty.

Fellas -

I don't think he SHOULD be fired....I'm just amazed that with the ever-insatiable Inter fans and organization, that he still has his job....I think his "undefeated" moment is what kept him from going. If you think about it, Inter's number of Draws is pretty ridiculous - a sign of a team that lacks focus and discipline - where does that point to?

Imo, it's the coach that has this responsibility.

I hope Chelsea does better than Man U and Arsenal. I might warm up to them if they do. LOL

Champions League Quarterfinal & Semifinal Draws

Quarterfinals:
Liverpool v Juventus (5 Apr and13 Apr)
Milan v Inter (6 Apr and 12 Apr)
Lyon v PSV (5 Apr and13 Apr)
Chelsea v Bayern Munich (6 Apr and 12 Apr)

Semifinals (26/27 Apr and 3/4 May)
Chelsea/Bayern Munich v Liverpool/Juventus
Lyon/PSV v Milan/Inter

We have the rematch of the Heysel tragedy 20 years later and the Milan derby.