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My point is, what does it matter they are upper half teams? All that means is we haven't been shut out once by lower half teams. So, the conclusion is that our offense has been subpar against teams with better records and it has been above average against teams with worse records. And overall, it is what it is: second best in Spain at 1.75 goals per game. Where can you find the statistics broken down by upper half vs. lower half anyway?

It matters within the context of the Juve match because Juve are not exactly Levante, Getafe or Numancia.

Falc

What's interesting is that even places like Old Trafford is expanding (I heard up to 70k) yet Juve wants a smaller stadium. Why can't Juve just build a fan friendly 60k-65k seat stadium?

If we're going to get into placement on the table then, it is worth pointing out that 4 of those 8 shutouts, 50%, were against Deportivo and Athletic, which are 9th and 10th place... not exactly Juve either. I just don't think it is a very telling statistic.

Now you're just splitting hairs Campi Are you able to watch the game or are you looking at the same pathetic soccernet match tracker that I am.

"Why can't Juve just build a fan friendly 60k-65k seat stadium?"

They should, FIAT just got a cool $2 bil from General Motors. Ah, our CEO geniuses, but that's a story for another thread:)

If we're gonna split hairs about the halves of the table, I'm willing to go all the way...

No way for me to watch the game. First of all, it's not televised in this damn, allegedly-advanced country, and second I am at work.

Luis Garcia notches 2 in a row for Liverpool, clinching their place in the quarterfinals. He's been scoring a bit for them lately.

After Juve started well in the first 15 minutes it looks like the game settled a bit and now we seem to have found our rhythm and are "knock-knock-knockin' on Buffon's doooooor..."

With all the talk on here that "defense wins championships" the rumor seems to have reached the players, with only 3 goals scored in 4 matches so far as we near halftime

I guess we assume (R)

At the half an ugly game still in Madrid's favor.

Casati wrote:Falc

What's interesting is that even places like Old Trafford is expanding (I heard up to 70k) yet Juve wants a smaller stadium. Why can't Juve just build a fan friendly 60k-65k seat stadium?

Considering that Juve is the second team in Torino, not sure if they would reach such a capacity on a regular basis. Fans in Torino are fickle I guess. I think management is looking to keep supply on the low side so that they can justify higher ticket prices. Similar to what baseball is doing with its new stadiums (notice that capacity usually runs to no greater than the high 40's). Just my guess. I would think that 55k would be a minimum. You would think that FIGC would get involved as they are bidding for Euro 2012. Delle Alpi was built for the WC, so I guess the large capacity was for that reason. The killer from what I have read is the big oval track, which takes the fans far away from the action. I am not aware of Delle Alpi hosting big track meets, so I am not sure that it was necessary. It will be used next year for the winter Olympics but I think more for ceremonies than for any sporting activity. To be honest, I cannot think of any event that would take place in such a stadium.

bineaz wrote:I guess we assume (R)

At the half an ugly game still in Madrid's favor.

Halftime Stats:

9-4 shots on goal in favor of Juve
11-9 fouls committed in favor of RM
1-1 corners
50-50 ball possession

source: UEFA site

60 minutes gone, 30 to go, Juve-RM still scoreless

Who would've thought that?

ADP out for Trez????

I'm not coach but can someone please explain to me what Capello is thinking with 3 strikers up front and I believe that none of them are play makers like ADP.

Who are the play makers between Zalayeta, Trez and Ibra?

Watch out now... Tacchinardi in for Pessotto

67 minutes gone, 23 to go and still scoreless

Juve MUST start taking some calculated chances.

Trez scores, 1-0 Juve, 15 minutes from time

Can you say O/T?

Sounds like a nice goal. Trezeguet porta la Juve sull'1-0 sul Real. Cross di Camoranesi, torre di Ibra e mezza rovesciata di Trezegol. Gran gol.

Very odd subs for RM, although the ZZ one could be b/s he can't last a whole game anymore. I would think if you need a goal, you keep Becks out there for his set-piece ability. I know Solari sometimes plays out wide but he is a natural striker. Also surprised Juve needing a goal had Trez start on the bench.

Trez has been injured and doesn't have the full '90 in him.

It's off to overtime. First goal wins.

Who understands Capello?

Casati - I would have replaced Zalayeta instead. I also read on the Juve ML that Capello has asked Del Piero to cover Graveson, so it took him out of play anyway. Del Piero is too much a team player and in turn, he gets sacrificed. He has showed well as the seconda punta behind the two strikers when used there and should have been the same today. Not sure though as Capello is very conservative.

Gram - Trez has not played in while due to illness, so that is why he came in as a sub.

Wow... I went home on an extra-long lunch break to hear the radio feed of the game and now I'm back and they're still in overtime. Guess that sub Trez for DP was good after all.

Damn... red cards to Tacchinardi and Ronaldo after the former elbowed the latter and the latter responded with a kick. Things are going to the wire.

2-0

WOW a deserving finish to such a high stakes match. Our dream of the CL remains alive. Tough luck for Real and also Barca. Like Red used to say, Spanish teams will be back on top in no time.

Oh my God! Zalayeta scores with 3 mins left?? I was checking to see how the PKs were going but it's over.... congrats Juve. Now you have 2 in a row against us, our "bete-noire". I think we deserved better and I was afraid we might regret not coming up with more in the first leg. What a complete disappointment..

So in short, I don't expect RM to score, I expect Juve to score first, RM to open up and Juve to score again and advance.

-Grami.

I have to start putting my money where my mouth is. Congrats Bineaz, Falc e Pabs wherever he is. To RM fans, big changes are needed, you better recognize.

Yeah, could've made some dough on that one. Everything is easier in hindsight, and I think we need to make some moves, but would you be saying that if we had scored on the two goal posts in the first game? The tie went 210 minutes and the difference was minimal. Our mids are definitely getting old, and in general we look injured out there... I've wanted to get some younger guns in there for a while, not sure if that's going to be able to happen now. That said, I'm sure florentino will do something to win the hopes of the fans and divert blame from himself... bring in some other forward again??

Good luck Bineaz... maybe your guys will get one step farther this year than in 03. We now owe you not one, but TWO!

Gonna be a long offseason---

Campi, I think Perez himself has to go, although I think he may be in an elected position that will keep him around. Madrid spent alot of dough this summer with nothing to show for it. Man U needs to let Fergie go and ditch some of the old dogs. He has spent tons of money too, more than Perez and we have actually moved backwards. Madrid's guys just don't seem hungry. No matter what kind of talent you have that is a killer every time. If I was in Perez shoes, I'd sell Figo and Carlos to Spurs, Becks to Arsenal/Chelsea, retire ZZ and sell Raul to Inter. I'd then bring in Saviola for Raul, Riquelme for ZZ, Sorin for Carlos and Joaquin for Figo and Becks. Word is Deportivo are trying to secure Riquelme for next season this week.

I've been wanting Florentino out for ages... he's a businessman and just wants to build a solid business, not a solid football team.

Juve wins....sweet. Congratulations to Bineaz and Falc. Piero the Globetrotter couldn't find the worse time to be away:)

It's 730am local time here and I finished watching the Juve game a little while ago...FORZA JUVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That game was so damn tense!! It wasn't as good as the 3-1 game a couple years back but still pretty damn good.

I thought Capello was nuts in his substitutions, but sometimes he has that magic touch. I guess that's why he's a tecnico and I'm not.

Juve fully deserved this win, and now can move on. Anything is possible at this point in time. No one team left in the CL is unbeatable.

The real hero tonight was Juve's defense. They just suffocated Real and Thuram and Cannavaro looked ageless. By the way, Camoranesi had a MONSTER game as well. Kudos to him.

FOOOOOOOOORRRRZZAAA JUVE!!!!!!!

It took O/T for Juve to getr their 2nd goal but they get it. 1-0 and some tight D was what Capello ordered and got to force O/T where anything is possible.

Interesting (not surprising) that RM couldn't score a goal. If they score a goal in the first 90 minutes, they were through to the next round. Good job for the Juve D.[/b]

This is a really interesting city. I'll have to write more about it when I get back. Talk about ENERGY. The population of this city is soooooo young. There is so much energy and hope about the future. Communism is dead here....period. I can't see it anywhere, and that's a good thing.

Sure there is still bureaucracy and the government's hand is apparent, but when it comes down to it...people want to make money and better their lives.

Every Chinese person I've talked to tells me that life is so much different now than 5-10 years ago. Before, they had no real incentive to work. Now they work their tails off to improve themselves and there are a lot of success stories.

The only down point about the city is that there aren't too many hot chicks. I'm off to Sanya today and Hong Kong next week, so that should improve.

Campi


"Oh my God! Zalayeta scores with 3 mins left?? I was checking to see how the PKs were going "

Unfortunately for Real Madrid players, so were they (;-)

Congrat's juven-weenies!

Well-deserved victory for juve today. Their defense played top-notch, and Camo' owned the midfield...to be quite honest, they were given a huge favor from Madrid with the WAY-TOO-EARLY-EXIT of Zidane....if he stays in te game, juve don't get as much posession that led up to the Trez' goal. ZZ was moving thru the midfield....I'm still scratching my head over that one....I don't think he was happy coming out either.

Trez' goal was superb. Zalayeta's winner was another class strike. juve earned their spot into the next round....they did all this without Nedved. They'll be and even tougher beat when he gets back....that may be the best offence juve will have to face...Maybe Chelsea are better. Better than RM??? I dunno.

juve defence is second to none...Milan are close, but Buffon puts juve over the top imo. With that defense, juve look as good as a bet as any other to get to the final.

Brilliant substitutions for Capello....he makes only one in regular time, subbing an exhausted and ineffective ADP for the eventual goal-scorer Trez'....after that, the other 10/9 men play for almost 115 minutes until Capello makes his final 2 subs in perfect clock-killing form.

Tachinardi was pretty slick getting into Ronaldo's head tonight. At that stage in the match, I'm sure juve were licking their chops watching PK-taker Ronaldo red-carded out of the game alongside NON-PK-taker Tachinardi.

wow, what a great game by Juve.

Totally surprised me, I thought they were toast.


The game was close throughout......but the subs changed this game - for both teams.

Luxembergo should NEVER have taken Zidane off, no matter how injured he may have been.....he was simply great controlling the midfield, even if he wasn't doing anything spectacular offensively. As soon as he came off, Juve started winning the midfield battle decisively.

And ADP had to come out. After a bright start, he was just wasting the ball out there for much too long. Moreover, getting him out of there allowed Camoranesi to take over the setup role.....and he quite simply had the best game I've ever seen him play. He's stepped up to a new level this year. He has to be starting for the azzurri.

What a classic win for Juve.

I didn't think they had a chance.

Sorry Espana.....and Forza Italia!

This has been a bad season for Spanish clubs. I know we still have 3 clubs left in the losers cup but overall I'd say this has been our worst season in a long time.

Congrats to Juve and their fans. Cannavaro was unbelievable.

redstreble99 (I like the name), if you've followed any of the madridistas comments this year you would see that we have all been asking for some changes this summer. Players like Figo, Roberto Carlos, and maybe a surprise or two will likely be gone this summer. I think we reached this conclusion without a lot of analysis on goals against top teams, lower teams or in-between teams. Fact is, our expectations for this season were not very high. This group of players is not what it used to be.

All that said, Campi is spot on in saying that Real Madrid's defense has improved greatly. Frankly, I don't think our defense has been our problem at all this season (liga or cl) - our problem has been the dissapointingly low number of goals we' scored. No ifs, ands, or buts. I know people here have watched 10-12 matches and I'm sure they read up quite a bit on footy - but that fact is that this Real Madrid side is agonizingly slow and lacks a killer instinct offensively. Ronaldo and Raúl have been subpar this season and I will differ on one thing - Real Madrid's most consistent player this year has been - without question - Guti.

Once again, congrats to Juve.

Siempre Fieles

¡¡Hala Madrid!!