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Does the USCO ever invite former athletes?

If anyone should have invited him, it should have been the mass media outlets.

Phelps was awesome but Spits was still faster in relation to the times. He would have won the 50. He simply smoked the crowd with his speed back then. Pabs, you barely doddie paddle, you don't know hwta it is to swim 50 meters without going up for air.

Why do you think Phelps didn't make it to the 50? Cielo was awesome.

Captain Shithead wrote:What do you think, would I be pissed of at the chinese if I was watching it on mongolian TV??
N O T H I N G else going on at 7.30 in the morning and they only start actually showing the marathon at 8.10 or so? Idiots.

So are you in China or Asia?

Is gymnastics a real sport?

What about this crap about starting points based on difficulty? What crap. Make everyone do the same routine. Then you can make real comparisons. Same goes for the diving events.

China and Asia brasilian. And the worst case for chinese athletics just happened. Liu Xiang out by injury.

WoW the Brazilian girls kicked arse against Gerwoman 4x1

Some surprises so far as far as I'm concerned.

nbc is actually showing live footy since the quarters men & women

best individual record: Micheal Phelps. This record will stand for decades!

best dominating performance by an individual, Usain Bolt! He will also likely take the 200M with relative ease. He will be a dominating figure in the 100 and maybe also the 200 for a long time!He left plenty of room to break his own world records!

Jmaica has officially ended the US dominance in men's and women's sprint. Womens sprint was Jamaica #1, #2 & #3!

Jamaica is doing something very right.

Good thing that Ben Johnson, The CHEATING Con-Adian, didn't run under the Jamaican flag

China confiscates Bibles!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080817/ap_on_re_as/china_bibles_confiscated

Good policy.

Why do you oppose religious freedom, Zeus?

Hehe... ... not really, but I certainly oppose missionaries.

felix,

if you get busted in Saudi Arabia or Egypt trying to convert a muslim with one bible , you get the death sentence...so on this one the chinese are pretty soft....i think thoses american believers should preach in their own country

onze wrote:felix,

if you get busted in Saudi Arabia or Egypt trying to convert a muslim with one bible , you get the death sentence...so on this one the chinese are pretty soft....

Just because others are even worse doesn't justify the behavior of the Chinese.

i think thoses american believers should preach in their own country

Well, problem is that Jesus said "Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature." How can Christianity obey this commandment while restricting their activity to Christian countries?

Also, most of these missionaries are not there to preach. In fact, most cannot even speak Chinese. Their mission is solely, and can only be, to distribute Bibles among Chinese Christians. Nothing more, nothing less.

Felix,

I saw one of the most touching scenes a few years ago.

A secret christian church in China had a regular meeting in a secret location and a reporter videotaped the service.

When it was time for a hymn the members opened their hymn book and begin "singing" without making a sound, basically lipsynching!

If a church is caught over there they will be jailed!

I personal;ly dislike all folks that try to convert others. I have a Baptist siter in law and I have ben wanting to ban her ass form my house for a while.

surnami,

yeah, I am familiar with the Chinese concept of "religious freedom"...

Pabs wrote:

Felix K wrote:
Well, problem is that Jesus said "Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature." How can Christianity obey this commandment while restricting their activity to Christian countries?

give me a break, Felix. So the Quran says to "behead non believers", does that mean we have to justify them ?

Not at all (assuming the Quran really does say such a thing. I am not so sure on that.). While being an elementary human right, the right to religious freedom does not trump the right to life.

I swear I fucking hate these liberal do-gooders. Like those 5 Dutch women that went to Kenya recently and were raped and murdered. Who the fuck would want to go to a continent and nation were people are a few million years behind the evolution chart.

Oh, I am sure that the Chinese police occupied with torturing captured Christians hate these Christians as well. As probably did the Romans in the 1st and 2nd centuries occupied with murdering them. Following Christ sometimes does earn you the hatred of the world; that's nothing new. In fact, Christ Himself warned His followers that this could, and at some place in their lives would happen. So, no surprise at all that nonbelievers like yourself cannot comprehend why some Christians expose themselves to such danger, and supposedly needlessly so...

Pabs, you get me thinking. Maybe we should have a disclaimer for this board:

The views expressed here are those of the authors and do not necessarily represent, and should not be attributed to, … this forum or Sepp Blatter.

Felix

So you want to obey your Jesus laws more than you want to obey the laws of a country? Already there I see a good argument for not allowing any missionaries and bibles into any country. Can't you save our souls in a different way? Pray for me or whatever? Much easier and I don't have to listen to the fairy tales.

As for China... bibles are allowed, so are churches. Under official supervison. They don't want a second state in the state, another authority. Same deal counts for muslims, buddhist etc etc. Religion yes, but not independent, guided from outside or by another body of authority inside the state.

American media is SORE LOSERS!!

Now they are trying to plant doubt in th eperformances of the Jamaicans, questioning if they are clean!

So typical. If they can't dominate an event they will find a way to diminish it or critizise it.

They do the same in soccer, they complained when Anthony Nesty won Gold in 88 over the American Biondi, saying it is not fair that he trains here and beats our guys. LOL

Donovan Baily same thing questioning if he's clean (*being that he was from Connada, it was somewhat understandable though)

But overall a bunch of whiners.

Yesterday they were critical of Bolt saying that he should have gave his all the full 100M. Never mind that he totally crushed the WR.

Note to dumb reporters, if it looks easy I can guarantee you that the athlete gives it all in training. He's just now reaping the rewards, toying with the competition!

Captain Shithead wrote:Felix

So you want to obey your Jesus laws more than you want to obey the laws of a country?

You kidding me? How can you claim to believe in God, and at the same time give worldly authority precedence over His?

The laws of the People's Republic of China would require a Christian woman who gets pregnant with her second child to have that child aborted. You honestly and seriously think that obedience to Chinese law would be a Christian thing to do in this case????

BTW, the Bible has a clear answer on your question. Incidentally, it's about whether or not Christians should obey orders to quit preaching the gospel:

27Having brought the apostles, they made them appear before the Sanhedrin to be questioned by the high priest. 28"We gave you strict orders not to teach in this name," he said. "Yet you have filled Jerusalem with your teaching and are determined to make us guilty of this man's blood." 29Peter and the other apostles replied: "We must obey God rather than men! 30The God of our fathers raised Jesus from the dead—whom you had killed by hanging him on a tree. 31God exalted him to his own right hand as Prince and Savior that he might give repentance and forgiveness of sins to Israel. 32We are witnesses of these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him." [Acts 5 (NIV)]

Already there I see a good argument for not allowing any missionaries and bibles into any country.

If you limit religious freedom to those who view state authority as the highest authority in existence, then religious freedom is essentially meaningless.

Can't you save our souls in a different way? Pray for me or whatever?

Well, I can't save you at all. Only God can. Christians who spread the gospel do so in order to obey God, not because they believe they can save souls this way.

And prayer - including prayer for those who do not know Christ - while important, does not replace evangelization. Sorry.

Much easier and I don't have to listen to the fairy tales.

Next time a Christian approaches you with this message, just tell him you're not interested. If he doesn't stop, remind him of what Jesus has said we should do in such a case: shake the dust off our shoes and move on. If they take God's word seriously, they won't bother you no more...

As for China... bibles are allowed, so are churches. Under official supervison.

These churches are not only "under official supervision", but they are indeed state-run, with doctrines adapted so they don't conflict with state doctrine. Much like the "German Christians" in the Third Reich who, among others, edited their Bible so it wouldn't contain the passage that says that "salvation comes from the Jews".

You are very naive if you think that there is anything close to religious freedom in China.

They don't want a second state in the state, another authority.

You're speaking the truth - they don't want people to recognize an authority even higher than the state. Which is why they have a problem with people believing in God.

Same deal counts for muslims, buddhist etc etc. Religion yes, but not independent, guided from outside or by another body of authority inside the state.

I wasn't saying that it's exclusively the Christians that are oppressed in China.

Nigeria 4-1 Belgium.......unbelievable goals on this game

Brazil 0-3 Argentina

If you limit religious freedom to those who view state authority as the highest authority in existence, then religious freedom is essentially meaningless.

Wow Felix, are you channeling Martin Luther or something?

What makes you think I am? To my knowledge, Martin Luther wasn't even advocating religious freedom...

Felix K wrote:
You kidding me? How can you claim to believe in God, and at the same time give worldly authority precedence over His?

The laws of the People's Republic of China would require a Christian woman who gets pregnant with her second child to have that child aborted. You honestly and seriously think that obedience to Chinese law would be a Christian thing to do in this case????

Not completely correct on the law. But anyway, though luck, why an extra deal for religious people? If you feel oppressed enough, get a gun and make a revolution. Like everybody else.

Meaning: For you god is Nr 1. For me he doesn't exist. If I'm a dictator in my nice own little country I'll make the laws, you don't like them because you regard god's word as more important than mine... why should I change the laws just to follow your belief? Follow the laws I make and you're ok, if you start not following them I'll not make your non-observance of the laws legal. Or I'll start my own cult, one of the rules, when you see a red light, don't stop! Would be very popular in China btw... so to accomodate the adherents of this minority cults I'd have to change the law to allow religious freedom in my country? Change red lights to pink or something? Or make green the stop sign? You expect my little kingdom (rather be a king than just a dictator maybe) with maybe 1% christians change the laws to accomodate those 1%? Or make it 5 or 10 or whatever. Even if in my very probably more informed opinion that wouldn't be for the good of the country? And change the law so that non-citizens like you can come in and fulfil your obligations towards your god? A god that is completely imaginary in my view?

Already there I see a good argument for not allowing any missionaries and bibles into any country.

If you limit religious freedom to those who view state authority as the highest authority in existence, then religious freedom is essentially meaningless.

Well, if I let religious people and religious fanatics run the country.... no, I prefer something else in power. You regard god as the highest authority, I don't. The chinese don't. Why should they or any other country allow an outside group come in and try to build a second powerbase in the country? Back to my future experience as a king, you are christian, muslim etc etc. ok. Believe in god, build a church/mosque, ok. Evangelizing? Mmh, no. Ok, in church, I'll give you a 100 meter radius around churches where you are allowed to hand out flyers on the street etc, anybody caught knocking on doors goes to jail. Don't care if he's christian or a vibrator salesman. I will supervise the churches, mosques etc. as well. Not to the degree china does, but I will supervise them. They are under MY authority. Don't care if the pope say's A, if I say B, in my country B counts. If that makes me against freedom of religion, so be it.

Well, I can't save you at all. Only God can. Christians who spread the gospel do so in order to obey God, not because they believe they can save souls this way.

And prayer, while improtant, does not replace evangelization. Sorry.

Sucks... but well, I'll survive.

Next time a Christian approaches you with this message, just tell him you're not interested. If he doesn't stop, remind him of what Jesus has said we should do in such a case: shake the dust off our shoes and move on. If they take God's word seriously, they won't bother you no more...

Can I use a baseball bat too? Would finally be a fight I win, especially with the other cheek rule! OK, no, no intention of buying a baseball bat. Cricket bat if anything, but then it's not really worth it, usually your "not interested" works well enough.

These churches are not only "under official supervision", but they are indeed state-run, with doctrines adapted so they don't conflict with state doctrine. Much like the "German Christians" in the Third Reich who, among others, edited their Bible so it wouldn't contain the passage that says that "salvation comes from the Jews".

You are very naive if you think that there is anything close to religious freedom in China.

Well, you are very naive if you think I think there is religious freedom in China. And you are naive if you think it's the most pressing issue in China. Actually having christians running around wild with their bibles right now wouldn't improve anything.

They don't want a second state in the state, another authority.

You're speaking the truth - they don't want people to recognize an authority even higher than the state. Which is why they have a problem with people believing in God.

I always speak the truth!!!

Same deal counts for muslims, buddhist etc etc. Religion yes, but not independent, guided from outside or by another body of authority inside the state.

I wasn't saying that it's exclusively the Christians that are oppressed in China.[/quote]

I know, I know, that wasn't really for you, more for our racist contigent here who sees oppression when christians are not welcome, but demands mass murder when it's another race or religion.

Just to be a pain in the ass: Isn't it like the homosexuality deal? Homosexual thoughts are not a sin according to you (might be mistaking you with somebody, hope not) but acts yes. Same deal in China. Being a christian is not against the law, attending a church is not against the law, it's against the law to attend a non registered illegal church. So to say "Christians are oppressed" is wrong.

Hope I got this quoting thing right... very complicated.

Just my way of saying you're speaking eloquently on religion.

And ML was advocating religious freedom from Rome.

Is this still the olympic thread?

ZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

Thanks, bineaz.

Zeus, I need to run now. (My weekly prayer and worship meeting ) Will answer later, probably some time tomorrow.

Bolt flew past all his competitors in the 200 quarterfinal heat. What a beast. I hope Wariner wins the 400m and breaks Johnsons' record.

They are all athletes and incredible in their sports. I was watching the men's rings in gymnastics last night. The strength needed to do those tricks on those rings, out of this world. They were also showing track and field. At one point, it was the women's discus. Big, strong women. Not exactly the types we would put on our Babes of the WC thread. Then they show the women pole vault. Slender, some pretty attractive women. What was the production director thinking?

My quick thought on religion and government. When the two work in harmony, they not only can be helpful to society but also act as a check and balance against each other. When the two are in collusion, you get the worst of both worlds.

Pabs,

yeah, the Olympics just aren't worth getting up at 2 a.m. every night - even when Germans have realistic chances to win gold, as in this case. (Although the other German, the one who finished 6th, would have been considered a more serious medal contender - being the defending world champion and all) I've missed not only the triathlon, but almost all swimming contests as well. Which is a pity as Germany won the women's 50m and 100m...

BTW, as far as I am concerned, yesterday's highlight was Matthias Steiner's weightlifting triumph. That competition was incredibly intense.

Captain Shithead wrote:Not completely correct on the law. But anyway, though luck, why an extra deal for religious people? If you feel oppressed enough, get a gun and make a revolution. Like everybody else.

That wouldn't be Jesus' style, to be sure.

Meaning: For you god is Nr 1. For me he doesn't exist.

God's existence is not dependant of your believing in Him. "Auch Atheisten müssen irgendwann dran glauben." (Sorry for the non-German speakers here, but there just doesn't exist an adequate English equivalent to that...)

Follow the laws I make and you're ok, if you start not following them I'll not make your non-observance of the laws legal. Or I'll start my own cult, one of the rules, when you see a red light, don't stop! Would be very popular in China btw...

Well, according to the German Wiki entry about the cultural revolution, they did try such a thing before:

Da das Züchten von Blumen und das Halten von Haustieren als bürgerlich galt, wurden Parks und Gärten in Getreide- und Gemüsefelder umgewandelt. Auch vor Skurrilitäten schreckten die Roten Garden nicht zurück. Da „rot“ und „links“ als revolutionär galten, entschieden sie, dass der Rechtsverkehr durch Linksverkehr ersetzt werden sollte und dass an Ampelkreuzungen künftig „Rot“ das Zeichen für freie Fahrt sein sollte. Rote Garden stellten sich an Kreuzungen zusammen mit Polizisten auf, um den Verkehr nach ihren Vorstellungen umzuleiten, was zu Chaos und zahllosen Unfällen führte und schließlich von Premier Zhou Enlai verboten wurde.

Ah, and needless to say, China do have their own cult: their god is Chinese style socialism, and their prophet is Mao.

so to accomodate the adherents of this minority cults I'd have to change the law to allow religious freedom in my country? Change red lights to pink or something? Or make green the stop sign? You expect my little kingdom (rather be a king than just a dictator maybe) with maybe 1% christians change the laws to accomodate those 1%? Or make it 5 or 10 or whatever. Even if in my very probably more informed opinion that wouldn't be for the good of the country?

If you find it "for the good of the country" to deny people freedom of religion, then all I can say is that I am really glad that you do not have any such power in my country, or anywhere else.

And change the law so that non-citizens like you can come in and fulfil your obligations towards your god? A god that is completely imaginary in my view?

It's very interesting to see you defending the Chinese system of oppression and censorship. Why do you hate Christians so much?

Well, if I let religious people and religious fanatics run the country.... no, I prefer something else in power. You regard god as the highest authority, I don't. The chinese don't. Why should they or any other country allow an outside group come in and try to build a second powerbase in the country?

Can you spell "Paranoia"? Christians are not interested in messing with the state any more than Jesus was interested in ousting the Romans from Israel.

Back to my future experience as a king,

thank God that you'll never get to become a king of any country, much less mine...

Can I use a baseball bat too? Would finally be a fight I win, especially with the other cheek rule!

Well, you might find out that not all Christians interpret the other cheek rule as literally as you think they do... I'd advise you to restrict yourself to verbal means of communication...

Well, you are very naive if you think I think there is religious freedom in China. And you are naive if you think it's the most pressing issue in China.

I never said that this is "the most pressing issue". It is one issue of many, no doubt.

Actually having christians running around wild with their bibles right now wouldn't improve anything.

Well, actually it would improve something - you just cannot imagine how happy many Chinese Christians would be if they had a Bible of their own...

Just to be a pain in the ass: Isn't it like the homosexuality deal? Homosexual thoughts are not a sin according to you (might be mistaking you with somebody, hope not) but acts yes.

You're misrepresenting my view on homosexuality.

Same deal in China. Being a christian is not against the law, attending a church is not against the law, it's against the law to attend a non registered illegal church. So to say "Christians are oppressed" is wrong.

Yeah, it's only those who *really* follow Jesus Christ that are oppressed.

Can you spell "hypocrisy"?

I'll answer in another thread later today if I find one.