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your mother...

sucky sucky

You like older women it seems...

Just about where do you rank Armstrong overall? Better than Indurain?

I'm sure I asked you in the past but I forgot your answer.

I'm not sure where I put him but he certainly doesn't make it in the top 5. I would heave to think about it but he may make the top 10 all time on my list. Maybe.

We haven't had this discussion for ages..... With Perlmutter on WC you used to rank him a bit lower than I would, and much lower than Perlmutter of course. Merckx, Bartali, Coppi, Hinault of course are way ahead. Anquetil too. Then ndurain... with regards to Indurain you always gave Miguel the hour-record benefit, which I didn't, it used to be important, but it isn't really anymore. My problem with him was the same as with Armstrong, Armstrong won the Tour seven times, Indurain 5, plus twice the double. Indurain otherwise.. nothing much, Dauphiné twiche I think and the Clasica di San Sebastian, never won anything else important. Armstrong was World Champion, won the Flèche and Dauphiné I think, plus one Tour de Suisse...WC and Flèche are way more important than San Sebastian in my view. Of course was a different Armstrong, but can't be ignored, so yeah, maybe I would put him before Indurain. It's close anyway.

Doesn't automatically give him 6th place though, would have to think what to do with a guy like Gimondi... 700 times second behind Merckx.. and still won more than enough... would have to read up again. Same with Kelly, not a GT rider really, more classiques and still managed to win the Vuelta. Again, would have to read up on the exact numbers again... So Armstrong - Indurain is very close, right now I'd give Armstrong a small edge, but ask me in 2 weeks and maybe it's the other way around...

Biggest problem is comparing different eras. Winning everything like Merckx and Hinault etc did isn't possible anymore, Hinault winning a sprint on the Champs Elysées, winning Paris Roubaix etc. We won't get guys like him back. We might get another 7 times TdF winner, but not another Merckx or Hinault. So actually not a big fan of the comparisons..

Ah one thing that speaks for Armstrong against Indurain: Indurain was a bore to watch. Armstrong at least had .. don't know the word in English.. was alive, not just sitting on his bike pedalling up the mountain like a machine destroying everything, not the Indurain/Ullrich way of riding. He destroyed everything in more exciting fashion.

Ah, forgot Paolino Bettini, since he just retired he has to be in front of Indurain/Armstrong as well, just on principle, he'll be put bakc a few places in 09.. (even though 2 WC, Olympic title, Lombardia, LBL, Flèche etc. etc. isn't really bad either, except Flanders and Roubaix he won everything I think. oh, Paris-Tours probably not...

Bah, just checked, Bettini never won the Flèche... ok, minus on that one..amstel and Gent (obviously) neither

It's a stunt but there are rumours he will be on new and undetectable drugs.

I always automatically ranked Indurain 5th best all time putting most of the weight on the Grand Tours.

Yes. Indurain is only slightly better than Armstrong in that at least Indurain rode Giro and Tour and did the Giro/Tour double twice, back to back in 1991 & 1992. No other rider ever did that. Not even Merckx.

I remember speaking to a great bicycle frame builder Alberto Masi back in 1999 at the Velodrome in Milano, his father Faliero Masi built bikes for all the greats, including Fausto Coppi's bike for the hour record in 1942. I held, in my hand, the wheel that Coppi used to set the hour record. That's another discussion for another day but if you love cycling history, you must visit Masi at the Velodrome. His "laboratory" is a museum for cycling. At any rate Masi said to me at the time: "if Merckx had decided to only ride Giro and Tour he would have won 10 of each instead of 5!"

You make a good point about Gimondi and what about Moser. Great on track, a good one day racer and he even won the Giro in 1984 (Fignon got screwed but that's another discussion).

Speaking of exciting, no one was more exciting than Coppi. This guy won a Milano-San Remo by almost 20 minutes. Not to mention his mountain victories in the Giros and the Tours that he won (254 km stage with 5 mountain passes including Vars, Izoard, Montgenivre, he takes off after 90km and rides alone for 160km, destroying everyone in the field and arriving 10 minutes ahead of the guy who finished in 2nd place). Even Eddy Merckx said that if there was one thing missing in his career was that he didn't win the way Coppi did.

At any rate, Not sure where I'd put Armstrong but he certainly isn't better than Merckx, Coppi, Hinault, Anquetil, Bartali and maybe not better than Indurain. I agree with yu in that yes, it's very hard and unfair to compare cyclists from different eras.

He's not the only one on doping...

Doping's got nothing to do with it.

I have never held Armstrong's accomplishments in question because of doping.

They all dope, they all doped in the past and they will always dope.

What got under my skin was idiots defending Armstrong as a non-doper.

I still Cheryl Crow helped him develop new drugs.

The doping comment was directed at Palo, not at you pramzan.

Moser? Pff, I was for Saronni, no way I give Moser any credit for anything. Even though I soon realized Saronni wasn't all that either, Moser pff. Nr 210 on the list. If I'm in a good mood... Indurain - Armstrong, yeah, we're fairly close on where to rate him, always were, me just rating Armstong and the World championship a higher than you do. Not going to change your mind on that, I know.

Indurain > Armstrong simply because he won back-back Giro-Tour (92 & 93). Otherwise it's Merckx, Coppi, Bartali, Hinault, Anquetil.

Armstrong stated he will ride the Giro.... IMO this is a fail/safe decision because he may not be allowed (or should I say Astana) to ride the TdF. Therefore he can always ride the Giro since the Giro invites all.

It will be very interesting to see if the TdF organizers forbid Astana because of Armstrong. I've read an interview with the TdF head and with Hinault both stating that they don't appreciate LA's gimmick.

Rangers prospect dies during KHL game

MOSCOW -- Alexei Cherepanov, a former first-round draft pick of the NHL's New York Rangers, died Monday during a game in Russia. He was 19.

The six-foot-one, 187-pound Cherepanov reportedly collapsed on the bench of his Avangard Omsk team in the third period of a Continental Hockey League game and died a short time later.

Cherepanov had seven goals and five assists in 14 KHL games this season.

He helped lead Russia to a bronze medal at last year's world junior hockey championship.

"We are extremely saddened by the tragic passing of Alexei," Glen Sather, the Rangers president and general manager, said in a statement. "On behalf of the New York Rangers organization, I would like to extend our deepest sympathies to his family.

"Alexei was an intelligent, energetic young man, with tremendous talent and an extremely bright future."

The fact that Cherepanov was a first-round pick in the 2007 draft wasn't surprising, but where he was selected certainly was. Prior to the draft he was projected to be a top-five selection, but mysteriously plummeted to No. 17 before going to the Rangers.

Cherepanov appeared in 106 career Russian Super League games with Omsk, registering 40 goals and 29 assists. Last season, he established a career-high in assists (13) while finishing fourth on the club in points (28).

In 2006-07, Cherepanov set a league record for most goals by a rookie (18), eclipsing Pavel Bure's mark of 17.

There will never be another Miguelon. I still remember that day when his it all ended right before the Tour reached his home town. That was tough.


Viva Miguelon!!!

Captain Shithead wrote:The doping comment was directed at Palo, not at you pramzan.

Moser? Pff, I was for Saronni, no way I give Moser any credit for anything. Even though I soon realized Saronni wasn't all that either, Moser pff. Nr 210 on the list. If I'm in a good mood... Indurain - Armstrong, yeah, we're fairly close on where to rate him, always were, me just rating Armstong and the World championship a higher than you do. Not going to change your mind on that, I know.

The World Championship is nice but in the end, it's a one-day race just like any other. The hour record on the other hand is harder. A lot harder.

Moser was awesome. The guy won THREE Paris-Roubaix IN A ROW from 78-80. He set the hour record in 1984, breaking Eddy Merckx's record that stood for 12 years and he won the 84 Giro. He was one of the best all around cyclists of all time.

palo,

Enjoy the game last night? Not so much I assume. The Phillies look real strong. They'll take the series at this point so the tagline goes but if the Dodgers do come back I'll give you another chance for a new one.

the last moments of Alexei Cherepanov -- DO NOT WATCH IF YOU FEEL THIS IS AN INVASION OF PRIVACY

http://mediacenter.gazzetta.it/MediaCenter/action/player?uuid=ab22944e-9a0d-11dd-bebd-00144f02aabc&navName=2&idCanale=Sport_Vari

RIP

Bineaz:

I didn't mention it last night because I was stunned. We had it but it got away. I had never been to a NLCS game. It was awesome. We were in the reserve upper deck. It was wild. My daughter loved it. She was the only kid in her class to go to the game. It was a school day. I gave her the "Some thengs are more important than homework and ging to bed on time. Familytime and the Dodgers.

I just converted my last kid to Dodger blue.


The bet is on. I may go to the gamne tomorrow.

palo, I'm glad you enjoyed the game despite the result; especially taking your kid.

Thanks Bineaz.

One of the gifts of my father. The love for the Blue. He used to take my brother and I to the reserve section. 2 bucks a ticket and a 50 cent dog.

There's always next year to continue the tradition.

The Phillies, clearly, are the best team in the NL. I hope they hammer the upstart dome-filed expansion team.

Should the Rays beat the Red Sox tonight (or the 1 of the 2 games following tonight) I will be cheering for them to beat the Phillies. I absolutely despise any Philly team.

Of course I rooting for the Sox all the way but it doesn't look like they'll make it.

I can understand the bias against the Phillies. I'd feel the same way if it were the St. Louis Cardinals, but I'm an NL guy and I can't stand dome teams and expansion teams getting into the WS before … well you know.

I have to admit though that the Rays are fun to watch. They have a lot of really good young players. Despite their lack of experience, they are formidable.

Who is the expansion team?

Tampa Rays.

You mean the team founded 10 years ago? The statute of limitation has passed already. Not everyone can be cursed like your .....

The Rays are one of four active teams never to have played in the WS. The other three are the Washington Nationals (although the Expos have played), the Texas Rangers (nee the Washington Nationals) and the Seattle Mariners.

Hopefully we can keep Manny Ramirez, he really energized the Dodger Blue base.

We also need to bulk up on relief pitching. The field is preety strong and we're ok at catcher with Martin.

Falc wrote:The Rays are one of four active teams never to have played in the WS. The other three are the Washington Nationals (although the Expos have played), the Texas Rangers (nee the Washington Nationals) and the Seattle Mariners.

The Montreal Expos never made it to the World Series. But the Washington Senators made it 3 times (1924, 1925, 1933) winning once (1924).

http://www.baseball-reference.com/postseason/

The Texas Rangers were an expansion club founded in Washington, in 1961 and called the Washington Senators, as opposed to the Washington Senators that left D.C. after 1960 to become the Minnesota Twins. The team then moved to Arlington in 1972 and became the Rangers.

Stick to calcio Falc.

Red Sox still have some mojo in them.

Hey Cubby boy, I may not know a lot about baseball but I do know some of my Senators. We have had two versions. As you stated, the first one went to Minnesota and the other to Texas. I guess by your definition, the Rangers are still an expansion side.

Casati - I thought the Expos made the WS when Gary Carter was their catcher but now that I think about it, he made the WS with your Mets, correct? That was my confusion.

Years ago, actually decades ago, I remember seeing a poster in a sports store that showed the history of teams in MLB as they moved from city-to-city. Can't remember if the Baltimore Orioles were once the Yankees or vice-versa. It is a very interesting.

OK Cubby boy, I will stick to my calcio. I will rely on you with the expertise on boreball. Just giving you a hard time.

hehehehe

How come you never use the Cubs logo for your avatar? Not proud enough?

I may have in the past but I don't remember. I did have a Cubs tagline (EAMUS CATULI) for a while and my avatar was a picture of a small bear portrayed in a mosaic at a Roman villa in Piazza Armerina Sicily, which I photographed this past April.

But it's time to get back to my roots; hence the scudetto on the Azzurri kit.

Expos should have made the WS back in 1981 if not for Blue Monday

What a come back for the Red Sox. I have to admite, I tuned it iff after they went down 0-5. Peeked when they were 0-7 and shit onmyself whan I saw the highlights of the last two innings.

Are the Red Sox fucking incredible? What an irony that J.D Drew brought home the winning run . he never did shit for the Dodgers.

The New York Yankees are a professional baseball team based in the borough of the Bronx, in New York City, New York. The Yankees are a member of the Eastern Division of Major League Baseball's American League. One of the American League's eight charter franchises, the club was founded in Baltimore, Maryland in 1901 as the Baltimore Orioles, moved to New York City in 1903, becoming known as the New York Highlanders and also "New York Yankees" before being officially renamed the "Yankees" in 1913.

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Orioles

One of the American League's eight charter franchises, the club was established as a major league club in Milwaukee, Wisconsin in 1901. The Milwaukee Brewers (not to be confused with the current Milwaukee Brewers) moved to St. Louis in 1902 and became the St. Louis Browns. After more than five decades in St. Louis, in 1954 the Browns moved to Baltimore and assumed the nickname Orioles, the traditional nickname of various Baltimore baseball clubs.

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Indians

One of the American League's eight charter franchises, the club was founded in Cleveland in 1901. The team actually began play in 1900 as the Lake Shores, when the AL was officially a minor league. Then called the Cleveland Blues, the team played in League Park until moving permanently to Cleveland Municipal Stadium in 1946.

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Twins

One of the American League's eight charter franchises, the club was founded in Washington, D.C. in 1901 as the Washington Senators. That was a carryover nickname from a previous, unrelated club in the National League. In 1905 the team changed its official name to the Washington Nationals.[1] The name "Nationals" would appear on the uniforms for only 2 seasons, and would then be replaced with the "W" logo for the next 52 years. The media often shortened the nickname to "Nats". Many fans and newspapers (especially out-of-town papers) persisted in using the "Senators" nickname. Over time, "Nationals" faded as a nickname, and "Senators" became dominant. Baseball guides would list the club's nickname as "Nationals or Senators", acknowledging the unique dual-nickname situation.

The team name was officially changed to Washington Senators around the time that long-time team president Clark Griffith died and his son Calvin took over the team. It was not until 1959 that the word "Senators" first appeared on team shirts. "Nats" continued to be used by space-saving headline writers, even for the 1961 expansion team, which was never officially known as "Nationals".

In 1960, Major League Baseball granted the city of Minneapolis an expansion team. Calvin Griffith requested that he be allowed to move his team to Minneapolis and instead grant Washington the expansion team. MLB granted his request, and the team moved to Bloomington, Minnesota after the 1960 season, setting up shop in Metropolitan Stadium, while Washington fielded a brand new "Washington Senators" that would also end up moving - to Arlington, Texas to become the Texas Rangers prior to the 1972 season.

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Tigers

One of the American League's eight charter franchises, the club was founded in Detroit in 1894. The Tigers constructed Bennett Park at the corner of Michigan and Trumbull and began playing there in 1896. In 1912, the team moved into Navin Field, which was built on the same location. In 1938, a substantially-improved facility, Briggs Stadium, was built, and it was renamed Tiger Stadium, in 1961.

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Red Sox

One of the American League's eight charter franchises, the club was founded in Buffalo, New York in 1901. After the move from Buffalo to Boston they became a dominant team, defeating the Pittsburgh Pirates in the first World Series in 1903. They won four more championships by 1918, and then went into one of the longest championship droughts in baseball history. Many attributed the phenomenon to the "Curse of the Bambino", said to have been caused by the sale of Babe Ruth to the New York Yankees in 1920. The drought was ended and the "curse" reversed in 2004, when the team won their sixth World Series Championship. Since 2003, the Red Sox have competed in four ALCS matchups, have won two World Series, and have emerged as arguably the most successful MLB team of the last decade.

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White Sox

One of the American League's eight charter franchises, the Chicago team was established as a major league baseball club in 1901. The club was originally called the Chicago White Stockings, after the nickname abandoned by the Cubs, and the name was soon shortened to Chicago White Sox. At this time, the team played their home games at South Side Park. In 1910, the team moved into historic Comiskey Park, which they would inhabit for more than eight decades. It was there that, in 1919, the infamous Black Sox Scandal occurred.

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A's

One of the American League's eight charter franchises, the club was founded in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania in 1901. Then the Philadelphia Athletics, the team moved to Kansas City in 1955 and became the Kansas City Athletics. It was not until 1968 that the team moved to Oakland.

By 1875, the National Association of Professional Base Ball Players was dangerously weak. The N.A. suffered from a lack of strong authority over clubs, unsupervised scheduling, unstable membership, dominance by one team, and an extremely low ($10, $172 adjusted for inflation)[1] entry fee that gave clubs no incentive to abide by league rules when it was not convenient.

William Hulbert, a Chicago businessman and officer of the Chicago White Stockings approached several N.A. clubs with the plan for a league with stronger central authority and exclusive territories in larger cities only. Additionally, Hulbert had a problem -- five of his star players were threatened with expulsion from the NAPBBP because Hulbert had signed them to his club using what were considered questionable means. Hulbert had a great vested interest in creating his own league. After recruiting St. Louis privately, four western clubs met in Louisville, Kentucky in January 1876. With Hulbert speaking for the four in New York City on February 2, 1876, the National League was established with eight charter members.

- Chicago White Stockings from the N.A. (now the Chicago Cubs)
- Philadelphia Athletics from the N.A. (expelled after the 1876 season)
- Boston Red Stockings, the dominant team in the N.A. (now the Atlanta Braves)
- Hartford Dark Blues from the N.A. (folded after the 1877 season)
- Mutual of New York from the N.A. (expelled after the 1876 season)
- St. Louis Brown Stockings (Browns) from the N.A. (folded after the 1877 season, having committed to Louisville stars for 1878)
- Cincinnati Red Stockings, a new franchise, unrelated to the team by the same name that folded in 1870 (expelled after the 1880 season)
- Louisville Grays, a new franchise (folded after the 1877 season when four players were banned for gambling)

Trying to teach the Fke Americanos here the game of baseball?

That would be Lopold, Pabs the Racist and ?

Palo?