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Postby dezzi on 06 Feb 2005, 02:42

Piero

is that $100 wager really a "grudge bet?(;-)!
I think the Eagles CAN cover 7 points (did u get pts?).. I don't think they will win. I think it would take an absolute collapse of the Patriots for that result.

I don't see it.....
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Postby Casati on 08 Feb 2005, 09:44

Super Bowl

Took the day off yesterday. I saw the entire game. The Patriots did what was expected of them: they won the match.

It wasn't pretty for either side. Both teams made mistakes but the Patriots made the fewest. Tom Brady had a good game and Donovan McNabb did not. I don't care that McNabb threw for 3 TDs. He also threw for 3 INTs and it could've easily been 5 had one Patriot defender not dropped one and another was called back because of a penalty.

McNabb along with poor clock management in the last 5 minutes cost the Eagles the game.

Bot defenses played well but the Pat's D played better when they had to.
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Postby pramzan on 08 Feb 2005, 09:52

Casati - Yeah, you can't get away with turning the ball over like that against a team like the Patriots.

They will make you pay for your mistakes.

Tom Brady has cemented his name along with the all time greats. Unbelievable, isn't it?

The only issue is the margin of their victories in these Super Bowls.

Where would you rank them against the 70s Steelers, the 80s 49ers, and the 90s Cowboys?

I would rank them just like that: Steelers, 49ers, Cowboys and Pats.
But I do wonder why Agnelli ever allowed the appalling late Italo Allodi to be made general manager of Juventus when all Italy knew how he had "run" Solti on behalf of Inter for many years. -Glanville
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Postby Casati on 08 Feb 2005, 13:26

Pram

Steelers, 49ers, Cowboys and Pats is about right. Should the Pats win next season that would give them 4 out of the last 5 and 3 in a row. No team has ever won 3 in a row.

Tom Brady is w/o a doubt one of the greats. You can't mention Aikman w/o mentioning Brady especially if you consider that Brady has done it with less.

I would rank Montana the greatest QB followed by Elway, Bradshaw, Aikman and Brady.

I may be wrong, but the Patriots may have converted one turnover to points in that game. If anything it just proved that McNabb was not up to the challenge.

BTW... got to give it to Terrel Owens. He had good game playing on one leg.
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Postby Casati on 08 Feb 2005, 13:34

Dynasty?

How about this... are the Pats a dynasty? In football, yes. There are amongst the greats such as Lombardi's Packers, Steelers and 49ers. But Lombardi's Packers won two Super Bowl's and 3(?) NFL Titles in the 60s.

But the Patriots certainly are not amongst other dynasties in other sports, for example the late 40s/early 50s Yankees, late 50s/late 60s Celtics, 50s Montreal Canadiens.
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Postby 'Uaglio on 08 Feb 2005, 15:54

Well, I won my bet :p Yup, I got the points.

I really do hate the Pats though. They come to Pittsburgh again next year, and beating them 55-0 wouldn't be enough.

I thought the Eagles played well enough to win, BUT WHAT THE HELL WERE THEY DOING AT THE END??

They were down 10 points with 5 minutes left and they were HUDDLING up??!?! I was screaming at the TV. I've never seen anything like it!! It was as if the game was fixed and McNabb was trying to run out the clock on his own team!!!!

Even with 3 minutes left Philly was still huddling up---they easily lost Unbelievable. And you thought the Jets had poor clock management?? Andy Reed should be FIRED for such incompetency.
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Postby Falc on 08 Feb 2005, 17:24

'Uaglio wrote:I thought the Eagles played well enough to win, BUT WHAT THE HELL WERE THEY DOING AT THE END??

They were down 10 points with 5 minutes left and they were HUDDLING up??!?! I was screaming at the TV. I've never seen anything like it!! It was as if the game was fixed and McNabb was trying to run out the clock on his own team!!!!

Even with 3 minutes left Philly was still huddling up---they easily lost Unbelievable. And you thought the Jets had poor clock management?? Andy Reed should be FIRED for such incompetency.


Early in the game, Chris Collinsworth was making a big deal about McNabb buying time, saying that Peyton Manning would not be able to move around the pocket to set up his receivers like McNabb did. Truth is that all that McNabb did was step to his left in the pocket. Well, there is no way that Peyton Manning runs a huddle in those precious minutes. McNabb is the QB, he needed to take charge. He failed. What is that saying Casati preaches all of the time about big time players......
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Postby Casati on 09 Feb 2005, 09:11

McNabb

Reports out of Philly are saying that McNabb was physically exhausted as he was battling a cold or flu all week and that by the 4th quarter he was spent. That's the excuse the Philly coaching staff is using for their poor clock management: they were buying time (LOL!) for McNabb.

The truth is that McNabb threw 2 of his 3 INTs in the 4th quarter. But he still had one INT dropped and another called back on a penalty. McNabb was clearly off his game.

Maybe he was sick. Who knows?
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Postby Casati on 09 Feb 2005, 09:13

Piero

LOL! I said "Did the Eagles hire the Jets clock manager for this game?" during the last 5 minutes.

That was bad.
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Prisco on Ronaldo's non-pk call - No, non è stato assolutamente un furto, si è trattato di RICETTAZIONE
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Postby dezzi on 10 Feb 2005, 15:07

I don't know about you cats, but some of the company I keep are gamblers.....I am as well, but I keep my vices to the card table...I rarely bet $$$ on games of any sort. Anyway...........they all took a beating....they lost the spread, the over/under....all of my friends got hurt....I was telling them the week before the game to stay away from it.....there was too much action going the Patriots way....the last 4 Superbowls have been 3 point games.

They took $erious beatings.....

The Eagles clock-management really brought to light thier inferiority as a team.

They're a good defense with a FEW weapons on offence....they got to the SB because that conference sucks...the Jets would have played the Pats tighter than both The Steelers and Philly....Philly became so one-dimensional - that we were starting to predict McNabb's pics....and getting them right!
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Postby Casati on 11 Feb 2005, 16:19

dezzi

Well, the last 3 out of 4 Super Bowls were decided on 3 points and those 3 games were won by the Patriots. Two years ago, Tampa smoked the Raiders.

I can't begin to tell you how many times I heard that the Jets would've played a better game against the Pats than anyone else.
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Postby Buzzz on 11 Feb 2005, 17:03

The hockey season is off and the sports shop is selling off hockey stuff at 50% off. The strike is bad for business I guess. :(
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Hockey Strike

Postby bineaz on 14 Feb 2005, 10:47

Imagine the people who worked at stadiums. They realy get hit in this.
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Yeah....

Postby Buzzz on 14 Feb 2005, 11:09

It is always the little guy who suffers the most. I feel for 'em. I hate to see anyone lose their job. :( Hope those stubborn air heads get their acts together and fast. At least we should have a full season, next season. :)
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Postby Casati on 14 Feb 2005, 14:45

Grammys

Did anyone catch it last night? Some decent moments.

I thought the opening act was little too busy although I never complain if I get to see Gwen Stefani and Eve perform in really short outfits with high heels.

The J-Lo and Marc Anthony duet was bland. J-Lo is good but Marc Anthony is much more talented, IMO. Plus... what the hec was J-Lo wearing? She looked fat in that outfit and she isn't.

The tribute to Southern Rockers Lynrd Skynrd and the Allman Brothers was OK. Gretchen Wilson (somehting about her makes me want to doink her) wasn't that good doing Free-Bird and the old rockers Johnny Van Zant and Dickie Betts were better off staying retired. What the hec was Tim McGraw thinking when he was singing Sweet Home Alabama? He sucked, really.

The Janis Joplin tribute with Mellisa Ethridge and Joss Stone (not a bad looking broad, really) performing Another Piece of My Heart was good.

Green Day's performance was by far the best of the night followed by Usher and Alicia Keys.

Best Looking broads were Gwen Stefani, Alicia Keys & Cristina Milian. Although Beyonce was dressed to the nines, it was a little too conservative for Grammys, IMO. Great for Oscar night but not the Grammys.

BTW... that song for the Tsumani Relief was absolutely horrible. I can't believe some of the people that were up there that were singing totally out of key.
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Postby 'Uaglio on 14 Feb 2005, 15:44

Hooray for Canseco!!!

I know the guy is a scumbag and he's certainly looking to make some $$$ off his book, but I believe him 100%.

Baseball's drug testing has always been a joke, and we all knew what was going on....yet know one ever did anything about it!! Skinny guys turning into muscle monsters to smack a ton of home runs...it was all bullsh*t.

Notice that the baseball players are reeling from this one. No one has any real defense to Canseco's comments (other than he's out for a buck) because its true what he's saying.

It's time baseball gets cleaned up for good, and hypocrites like Bud Selig and the Players Rep (forgot his name) step down. You think those guys didn't know what was going on the whole time and turned a blind eye?

IMO, Bonds, McGuire, Sosa....their HR totals should all be stricken from the books and Maris should hold the single season record again.

**The best part of this is the Holier Than Thou baseball fans that keep saying "It's not possible in our sport". LMAO!
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Postby pramzan on 15 Feb 2005, 08:06

Canseco

What an asshole. Self absorbed legend in his own mind. He's cashing in at the expense of ex-teamamates, friends and colleagues. A major piece of shit to say the least.

But, I am not surprised at what he's writing and saying. As to the records that McGwire and Bonds have set, I think they should stand. Their names are tainted enough as it is, especially Bonds.

And while we are talking about Bonds, I must say that I can't believe his numbers the last few years. The guy is old and even if he's on the juice, he is still producing unbelievable numbers for a man his age.

I don't like him, I never did and in my opinion he will never be as great as Ruth, Mays, DiMaggio, Aaron, Mantle, Gehrig, Berra, Robinson, Williams, Musial and even Roberto Clemente. Geez I would even take Pete Rose over him.

Another self-absorbed jackass who never played well in a big game and was only concerned about himself.
But I do wonder why Agnelli ever allowed the appalling late Italo Allodi to be made general manager of Juventus when all Italy knew how he had "run" Solti on behalf of Inter for many years. -Glanville
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Postby Casati on 15 Feb 2005, 09:10

Canseco & 'roids in bball and sports

First of all, let the record show that Jose Canseco is a major piece of shit. You do NOT squeal on your colleagues and the hand that fed you so that you can make a buck or two on a tell all book.

That said, whay Canseco is saying is 100% true. I remember back in 1988/89 when Canseco and his Oakland A's would travle to NY or Boston. The fans were ruthless. They used to chant out "I'm on steroids" when Canseco and McGwire came to the plate back then. It was a known fact back then and like it or not, it exists in all sports, not just baseball.

Why the hec should it come to a suprise to anyone is beyond me. It's old news.

Should the records that Bonds & Co set have an asterisk? Absolutely NOT. Why? Well... tell you this... do you really believe that the likes of Mickey Mantle were clean? How the hec did Mickey Mantle go out on the town almost every night (he was known to hang out and drink regularly until he was inebriated at Toot Shores), get hammerred, show up the next day at Yankee Stadium all hung over and bang out 2 or 3 HRs? How did Mickey Mantle play all those years physically hurt and in pain? How the hec was he able to win the Triple Crown in 1957?! I'm not trying to bad mouth a legend, but come'on now. In every era there were players that had some help. Bonds, McGwire, Sosa, Giambi and Canseco are all on a level playing field as far as I'm concerned.

We know that in professional cycling, the use of performance enhancers has been widely used since the 40s if not earlier. Do you really believe that it was the only sport where athletes got a little help? Let's not be naive. It was being used in cycling, calcio and Olympic sports for many decades. It has been documented that the use of amphetamines in the NFL was rampant back in the 60s until the 70s & 80s when steroids took over. Do you really believe that baseball has been squeaky clean all that time?

Let's not be naive. Performance enhancers have been used in all professional sports for quite some time. Be it in Europe, Asia or the USA, it holds no boundaries. The pro athlete wants an edge. There's too much much money and fame involved. The team owner wants an edge too. Afterall, he stands to gain from it. Let's not forget the commissioner of the sport in question too. They all gain from it.

It's life. It's reality. Deal with it.

How many actually cheat? Who knows. I'm sure it varies from sport to sport and from team to team. We'll never know the answer to that question.


PS - Tony Larussa is a major asshole. To stand there and defend Mark McGwire and in the same sentence bad mouth Canseco is truly something. Also, to stand there and state that McGwire and others have gotten there with alot of hard work and no 'roids is truly naive.
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steroids

Postby bineaz on 15 Feb 2005, 13:03

Gotta agree with all of your posts. It's not new, but now it's sensational. Baseball deserves the black eye and it's not like it's not clean in the past. Selig must go. Fans again get shafted again.
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Postby 'Uaglio on 15 Feb 2005, 13:56

There's no doubt Canseco is a major asshole. But, what he's doing HAD to be done. Someone had to come out and wake people up. I know that you knew better...but many baseball fans still live in "la-la" land thinking their heros are infallible and clean.

By the way, why should these records stand? Babe Ruth, Mantle, Henry Aaron....yeah, they partied but we have no proof they were in enhancers...if anything, they HURT their careers with their partying. Why should Roger Maris' record be eclipsed by some dudes juicing?? It's just not right.

Yeah, I know enhancers are a part of most sports, but that doesn't make it right. The NFL at least has a DECENT drug testing policy. FCKIN baseball is run by the players union practically.

Baseball is a joke right now. It's time to clean up that sport. They need real revenue sharing, salary caps, and real drug testing. Or else no one is going to take that sport seriously for much longer.
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Postby Falc on 15 Feb 2005, 15:46

So, is McGwire's wife waiting for an injection from Canseco?


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Postby Buzzz on 15 Feb 2005, 20:12

FALC
What is that the bible says...."thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife." hehehe :D
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Postby pramzan on 16 Feb 2005, 08:44

Cycling News Flash for February 16, 2005
Edited by Hedwig Kröner

Armstrong will ride Tour 2005

After much speculation, Lance Armstrong finally announced his initial 2005 racing schedule, one that will include this summer's Tour de France where he will go for a seventh straight victory.

"I look forward to achieving my goal of a seventh Tour de France (victory)," said Armstrong to thepaceline.com. "I am excited to get back on the bike and start racing although my condition is far from perfect," he added.

Also on Armstrong's racing schedule is the Tour de Georgia in April, an event the American won in 2004. As already confirmed, Armstrong will kick off his season early next month at Paris-Nice, a seven day stage race and the first event of the newly formed Pro Tour. Following Paris-Nice, Armstrong will take part in the 89th edition of the Tour of Flanders, one of Europe's most prestigious Spring Classics, on April 3. Armstrong last raced in the Tour of Flanders in 2002, finishing 59th in support of his team's leader. Armstrong will then return to the U.S. and defend his title at the Tour de Georgia, scheduled for April 19-25.

"Johan (Bruyneel, the team's sports manager) and I will evaluate my fitness later this spring and possibly add some races to the calendar," said Armstrong.

Well it looks like nothing has changed for Lance Armstrong. All that talk about not doing the Tour, concentrating on the the Classics, setting the hour record was just a front. A front to what? Maybe more money, be it from his team, his sponsors, or whoever else is paying him.
But I do wonder why Agnelli ever allowed the appalling late Italo Allodi to be made general manager of Juventus when all Italy knew how he had "run" Solti on behalf of Inter for many years. -Glanville
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Postby Casati on 16 Feb 2005, 09:32

Piero

Do we have proof that McGwire took anything? How about Bonds? Do you have film of them getting shot up in the buttocks with Deca-durabolin?

Don't get me wrong. They're guilty as anything in my book. But the bottom line is that nothing will never be proven. Just as we can't ever be 100% sure about them we can't be sure about the Mantles, Aarons and Mays of yesteryear. Just a hunch... I wouldn't be surprised to hear that they took crap too.

I understand and agree that just because many are doing it, it doesn't make it right. But don't start defending the NFL. Just because they have a good testing policy in place doesn't mean these guys still aren't augmenting their training with steroids or other performance enhancers.

Arguably, cycling and the Olympics have the tightest testing yet there are many who still use these performance enhancers and get away with it.

I'm not sure what you mean by baseball being a joke. The baseball union runs baseball? I don't think that at all. Matter of fact, I think that's way off base.

The owners run the game. Always have. Look who's commissioner.... Bud Selig... owner of the Milwaukee Brewers. Why isn't he putting any grit into performance enhancer testing? Because it's not in his and the owners best interests to do so. Offense sells tickets.

I agree that they need better revenue sharing and a salary cap. But most will disagree about the salary cap since it's based on the parity argument. There seems to be a good amount of parity in baseball nowadays. Winners of the last 5 WS were Red Sox, Marlins, Angels, Diamondbacks and Yankees. The Marlins and Angels won it with a payroll less than $60 million. The Red Sox had a $120 million payroll last season which was 2nd highest to the Yankees $180 million (50% more).
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Postby Casati on 16 Feb 2005, 11:19

Pram

Well, I kind of thought it was strange that during last year's TdF it was announced that it would be USPS last year as the major sponsor and that the Discovery Channel was taking over and that LA stated he didn't want to race the TdF next year.

I know if I were Discovery I would be pissed to sign a contract to be a major sponsor for a cycling team that has just come off 6 TdF wins in a row and all of a sudden state that they're not racing it next year. It just didn't sound right.

Of course LA milked some more money out of Discovery Channel. But the talk about the hour record wasn't just talk. I read an article about a month ago where they were still trying to decide where to build a velodrome for it and that LA was already training/researching in the wind tunnel for it.

LA stated last year that he desired racing the Tour of Flanders (which he's doing). Now that he's decided for the TdF he may still attempt the hour record sometime in October.
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Postby 'Uaglio on 16 Feb 2005, 13:35

Bonds admitted to a grand jury that he took roids, although he claims he didn't know what they were. His trainer mislead him...LMAO. For McGuire we have Canseco's testimony, which sounds pretty credible to me, even though he is an asshole. Plus, didn't McGuire admit to using that andro stuff? I know it was legal in BB at the time, but that was a joke too.

I know the NFL isn't a bunch of saints, but at least they have a real drug testing program. Sure, there are ways to beat it, but at least they make the effort.

What bothers me about Baseball is the holier than thou attitude it takes. We know that Cycling, Olympics and other sports have drug issues...hell, its out in the open. Even the NFL came clean in the 80's with its problem. With Baseball, people have been trying to sweep it under the rug for about 10 yrs now. Anyone with half a brain could tell Bonds, McGuire, Canseco, Giambi were roiding it up. But, baseball never did anything about it because the players union never allowed real drug testing or set standards on roids.

When I say baseball is a joke, don't get me wrong, the owners are not angels. The union wields a ton of power, but it is the owners that keep caving in at negotiation time. The owners are too blame for not taking a tougher stance with salary cap issues and drug testing.

By the way, I don't believe there is parity at ALL in MLB. If you look at all the WS winners over the last decade, you have Atlanta, the Yankees (4 times), Arizona, Florida, Boston, and Anaheim. The Yanks, Boston, and Atlanta were loaded. Florida and Arizona were bankrolled in 97 and 01, so that only leaves a couple aberrations in 10 years. Bottom line is that in BB, you do not have parity like in other leagues. The Pirates won't be contending for a pennant in the next 10 yrs unless there is some miracle. Neither will KC, Milwaukee, etc.

Until BB gets a salary cap, nothing will change. I COMMEND what the NHL owners are doing with their union. Cancel the damn season for all I care. Now is the time to make a stand and get a hard salary cap in place. This will help the NHL for decades to come.
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Postby Casati on 16 Feb 2005, 13:53

Piero

But the bottom line is that in baseball there have been 5 different winners in the last 5 World Series. If you wish to extract a common denominator that they all spent alot of money, fine. I don't have a problem with that since I happen to agree that baseball needs a hard cap. Without a cap, teams like Milwaukee, KC and Pittsburgh will never have a chance to win it.

Just because in the NFL there's parity and salary cap doesn't mean that teams don't spend money. A good question would be is how many NFL teams meet or exceed the cap. Another interesting question is how many small market teams won the Super Bowl in the last 10 years?

re the NHL: Bettman created the mess by expanding to 30 teams. There isn't enough money in the league to support the players. Plus the owners are to blame for signing some of those ridiculous contracts. Unfortunately for the players, a salary cap is the only solution. Why? Because there's only so much $$$ to go around and there are no controls in place for spending. The owners have to make a living too.

I hope they don't cancel the season. Both sides are at the table talking. The latest number was $49 million cap offerred by the players and the owners responded with $44.7. Gary Bettman's press conference is scheduled for 1pm (8 minutes from now) to cancel the season. This was scheduled yesterday.

We'll see what happens. They're pretty close to the numbers. What's seperating them $4.3 million on the cap.
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Postby Casati on 16 Feb 2005, 14:32

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Postby Falc on 16 Feb 2005, 15:06

It's over.

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Postby Falc on 16 Feb 2005, 15:22

Steroids / Parity

What bothers me about Baseball is the holier than thou attitude it takes. We know that Cycling, Olympics and other sports have drug issues...hell, its out in the open. Even the NFL came clean in the 80's with its problem. With Baseball, people have been trying to sweep it under the rug for about 10 yrs now. Anyone with half a brain could tell Bonds, McGuire, Canseco, Giambi were roiding it up. But, baseball never did anything about it because the players union never allowed real drug testing or set standards on roids.

When I say baseball is a joke, don't get me wrong, the owners are not angels. The union wields a ton of power, but it is the owners that keep caving in at negotiation time. The owners are too blame for not taking a tougher stance with salary cap issues and drug testing.


It is a joke because they have ignored it. They looked the other way because players breaking records, players making big plays (actually, its Casati's fault), players looking like giants helps sell the league. Players are given physicals before they sign and probably take one annually (they should). It is not so much because the owners care. They just want to make sure they are buying a good asset. Kind of like checking the horse's teeth before you buy it. That is where the shame should be. They don't give a fuck about the players' health. A lot of these guys are going to have major health problems as they get old. If not for the public outcry, no one would give a damn about steroids.

Both sides totally fucked each other and themselves with this NHL situation. The owners are stupid for not going NFL style and sharing revenues. Same problem that baseball has. A bunch of greedy fuckers. The union head should be fired too. They are not representing their members but instead looking to make a power play. And it is the marginal player that gets screwed. The millionaires will continue to make their millions. It is the guy that has to worry if he will make the cut the next season that should be represented. The NFL has parity because teams share revenues. Some will still make more than others because of the way they market their teams but the pot is shared from the TV money. So everyone has a chance. The NHL owners need to reach the same compromise among themselves. Baseball should do the same.
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Postby Casati on 16 Feb 2005, 15:46

NHL & Players

What's messed up about all this is that both sides are to blame. Bob Goodenow (union rep) has such a hard head and Gary Bettman (NHL Commish) has one just as hard. Both had a standoffish attitude and got nothing done.

The last month we saw some progress after the players started having meetings with NHL execs w/o Bettman and Goodenow present. What happened was the the players finally agreed to a salary cap. Now all they had to do was come to terms to a number. Had they done that back in September, the season would've kicked off on time if not by couple of weeks delay. Hec... all this time was thrown away and for what?... for the players to finally agreee to a salary cap? Geez.

Bettman stated in his conference that they have to start negotiating for next season on a clean slate because there are no gurantees with the fans and business partners. The players really shot themselves in the foot. They're going to get less this coming fall than had they settled in January.
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Postby Casati on 16 Feb 2005, 15:50

Falc

As you stated, the bball owners look the other way because it's in their best interests to look the other way. Of course they don't care about the health of the athletes.

But MLB is healthy from a financial standpoint. It could be better had they put in place some revenue sharing and a salary cap. All that will come in time.
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Postby Falc on 16 Feb 2005, 18:14

Casati wrote:Falc

As you stated, the bball owners look the other way because it's in their best interests to look the other way. Of course they don't care about the health of the athletes.

But MLB is healthy from a financial standpoint. It could be better had they put in place some revenue sharing and a salary cap. All that will come in time.


Overall, MLB appears healthy but the small market teams are struggling. The problem is that you get teams like the Yankees and Mets who are able to put a regional package together or the Braves and Cubs who have national coverage and they are unwilling to give up what they have. MLB is very much like Serie A. Serie A needs to overhaul its business plan as well.
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Postby Buzzz on 16 Feb 2005, 20:29

No hockey, welll not at the NHL level anyway. but there still is lots of minor league hockey to be taken in if you are a true hockey junky. :)
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Postby pramzan on 17 Feb 2005, 08:20

NHL

Well the season has been cancelled and quite frankly we may not see the NHL next year as well.

Don't fool yourselves into believing the numbers of the last deal on the table. They weren't just 6.5 million apart. It was more than that if you consider the other crap/conditions.

Bettman's an asshole and deserves to be run out on a rail and not just for botching this salary cap idea.

I still don't know why it is believed that the salary cap is the solution. Too bad if owners can't control their spending. You can't live within your budget then you go out of business. Tough shit.

There are too many teams in the NHL. Come on. If the NHL has 30 teams then the NFL should have a 100. Why do all of them have to survive?

It was said by the owners that the players got 75% of the pie. I find that unbelievable and in my opinion an exageration of the truth.

The owners and Bettman started this mess. They are the ones responsible for the over expansion and the lockout, not the players.

And don't forget that it was the players who, at least 4 times, gave offers to get the season going only to be turned down by the owners.

Bad job by Bettman.
But I do wonder why Agnelli ever allowed the appalling late Italo Allodi to be made general manager of Juventus when all Italy knew how he had "run" Solti on behalf of Inter for many years. -Glanville
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Postby Casati on 17 Feb 2005, 09:14

Pram

To a degree I understand your hatred towards Bettman. He is partly to blame for this mess. Afterall, he is the commissioner and he let the league grow to 30 teams with franchises in small market cities.

But don't let the head of the NHLPA, Bob Goodenow get off easy. He's another major asshole.

Last night while I was driving home I listened to Gary Bettman being interviewed by Mike Francesa and Cris Russo. Bettman stated again (I had already heard this weeks before) that he invited Bob Goodenow (and group of auditors to Goodenow's liking) more than once to his Park Avenue offices to examine the NHL books for the past 5 fiscal years. Goodenow rejected the offer every time.

Russo commented something like "Wow... that's hard to argue against". And he's right.

Think about it: how many times did we hear other labor disputes where owners were crying they were losing money only to have the player representatives reply "show us your books" and then to hear the owners reject the request? Here's a commish who asked the question to Goodenow. For crying out loud... Goodenow didn't ask to see the books and when offerred to view them with his auditors, he turned down the invitation. What does that tell you?????

As Francesa stated yesterday, it was apparant that the union was looking to break the owners. They didn't want anything to hear about how they were hurting and how the league was losing money. You know why? Because it's true.

Sorry... but Bob Goodenow deserves to be fired. Bettman too since he allowed it to get to this point of 30 teams with franchises in Columbus Ohio (LOL!), 2 in Florida and one in a previously failed location, Atlanta.
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Postby Falc on 17 Feb 2005, 10:06

Losing Money

The union was not able to break the owners because the owners lost less money not playing then if the season was played. The owners do have themselves to blame for not keeping things under control but Goodenow screwed his players royally. The millionaire players should not have had any problems, that is if they adjusted their lifestyles to accomodate no income. But what about the guys who earn less? If they were smart, they put away enough acorns in the tree. Regardless, a playing career is limited and all the players lost any income they would have made this year. Goodenow's primary objective should have been to make sure that his players were bringing in a paycheck. Maybe he should turn his paycheck for the year back to the union.
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Postby Casati on 17 Feb 2005, 10:27

Falc

Absolutely. The owners are to blame as well as Bettman but Goodenow screwed up royaly and was the worst of the bunch, IMO. That seems to be the sentiment with many journalists, fans and players (believe it or not).
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Postby Casati on 17 Feb 2005, 10:34

Ray

I saw this movie last night with my wife. Jamie Fox did a great job. Good movie and the of course, the music was great. Ray Charles was so talented. To think he made such a name for himself (from 1950-1964) while being doped out on heroin is amazing.
Ronaldo - arbitraggi sempre in favore della Juve.
Prisco on Ronaldo's non-pk call - No, non è stato assolutamente un furto, si è trattato di RICETTAZIONE
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Postby pramzan on 17 Feb 2005, 10:36

Actually the information I am getting off the internet is the opposite. It's Bettman who is getting the blame for this disaster and not the NHLPA.

Just do a search on articles for this strike and you'll see what I mean.
But I do wonder why Agnelli ever allowed the appalling late Italo Allodi to be made general manager of Juventus when all Italy knew how he had "run" Solti on behalf of Inter for many years. -Glanville
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