2008 - No, not the EC, the U.S. Presidential Elections

The beautiful game and stuff....

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Re: 2008 - No, not the EC, the U.S. Presidential Elections

Postby Falc on 09 Sep 2008, 00:38

Pabs wrote:Falc should be happy...

MSNBC is removing Keith Olbermann and Chris Matthews as the anchors of live political events, bowing to growing criticism that they are too opinionated to be seen as neutral in the heat of the presidential campaign.

David Gregory, the NBC newsman and White House correspondent who also hosts a program on MSNBC, will take over during such events as this fall's presidential and vice presidential debates and election night.
The move, confirmed by spokesmen for both networks, follows increasingly loud complaints about Olbermann's anchor role at the Democratic and Republican conventions. Olbermann, who regularly assails President Bush and GOP nominee John McCain on his "Countdown" program, was effusive in praising the acceptance speech of Democratic nominee Barack Obama. He drew flak Thursday when the Republicans played a video that included a tribute to the victims of the Sept. 11 attacks, saying that if the networks had done that, "we would be rightly eviscerated at all quarters, perhaps by the Republican Party itself, for exploiting the memories of the dead, and perhaps even for trying to evoke that pain again. If you reacted to that videotape the way I did, I apologize."


Pabs - Where did you find this? Triumph the whatever dog was at the RNC for a skit for Conan O'Brien. He did an interview of Anderson Cooper of CNN. He had this line about Matthews and Olbermann climaxing during Obama's acceptance speech. Cooper just about lost it laughing at that line.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eneq0jcMlTw
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Re: 2008 - No, not the EC, the U.S. Presidential Elections

Postby Falc on 09 Sep 2008, 00:48

Then there is this idiot from the British Isles who gives his endorsement for Obama. Message to Limey fazulla, get a haircut ....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vm-8_ljdZIU

Someone revoke his green card. Does MTV need this fool?
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Re: 2008 - No, not the EC, the U.S. Presidential Elections

Postby Pabs on 09 Sep 2008, 00:58

Muhammad Ali was famously asked “Champ, what did you think of Africa?” to which the Champ replied, “Thank God my granddaddy got on that boat..."
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Re: 2008 - No, not the EC, the U.S. Presidential Elections

Postby Falc on 09 Sep 2008, 01:05

This article uses some good basketball metaphors ....

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/sun ... 874.column

McPalin rattles Team Obama
The Democratic ticket finds itself trapped by a McCain-Palin double-team.
Jonah Goldberg

September 9, 2008
Barack Obama, a famous fan of pickup basketball, must recognize his plight: It's two on one now. John McCain drafted Gov. Sarah Palin, the star point guard from the Wasilla Warriors, to double-team Obama.

(McCain's team doesn't care if no one covers Joe Biden, who seems to spend most of his time yelling to the media, "I'm open! I'm open!" But when he gets the ball, all he does is talk about what a great player he is and dribble in place.)

So after the halftime show of the political conventions, to strain the sports metaphor a bit further, it looks as if the change-up in strategy has Team Obama rattled and in danger of choking. Polls -- the closest thing we have to a scoreboard -- show that McCain, at least temporarily, has taken the lead. The Real Clear Politics average of national polls since Friday shows McCain ahead by a razor-thin (and statistically meaningless) 2.9 percentage points. The USA Today-Gallup poll has McCain leading by a whopping 10 points among likely voters (and four points among registered voters), though that's almost surely an overstatement.

The McCain-Palin convention bounce also all but closed the ticket's gender gap. According to Rasmussen, Obama had a 14-point lead among women; now it's three. According to the latest ABC/Washington Post poll, McCain now has a 12-point lead among white women.

Still, there's a lot of pressure on Sarah Barracuda. Called up from the political minors, she could yet wilt under the hot lights. But that's looking less and less likely.

The outrageous attacks on Palin out of the block (She banned books! She opposed family planning education! She's a creationist!) have missed the mark. And the eagerness of the mainstream media to go after her family life has backfired as well. For instance, the Washington Post's Hanna Rosin wrote sneeringly in Slate magazine of Palin's "wreck of a home life." Would Slate say that Obama, conceived out of wedlock to a teen mom, comes from a "wreck" of a family? I somehow doubt it.

Palin's more sober critics, mostly on the right, worried that picking her would undermine McCain's claim to "experience." Almost the exact opposite has happened. Thanks to the double-team strategy, Obama has found himself in the awkward position of sounding as if he's running against the GOP's vice presidential nominee. When Obama compared his own experience to Palin's tenure as mayor of Wasilla (leaving out her current job as governor), he ran right into the pick the McCain campaign had set, leaving McCain a clearer path to victory.

The more Obama has to explain why being a community organizer -- or a state legislator, or a one-term senator with few accomplishments under his belt -- is better preparation for the presidency than being a mayor or governor, the more he volunteers his own shortcomings when compared with McCain.

Besides, on paper, Obama doesn't stand up very well against Palin. All of the mythic themes of Obama's political narrative -- the ethics reformer, the bipartisan, the new kind of politician -- all look like press-release material next to Palin's accomplishments. Obama voted the Democratic Party line more often (97%) than McCain voted in accord with President Bush (90%). In Washington, Obama's supposedly "sweeping" ethics reform -- which forces congressmen to eat lobbyist-provided meals standing up instead of sitting down -- and his feckless reforms in Illinois make him look the Bambi to Palin's Godzilla.

Obama's idea of ethics reform is to mandate clean sheets in the brothel. Palin's is to tear it down.

The most unsportsmanlike conduct in the days to come will be the search for Palin gaffes, of which there undoubtedly will be many. The media will call fouls on her that they never call on the other candidates. Over the last week, Obama misspoke and referred to his "Muslim faith" on ABC's "This Week" and told a rally how excited he was to be in "New Pennsylvania." Perhaps that's one of the 57 states he once claimed to campaign in?

And let's not forget Biden, whose gaffes are the unavoidable byproduct of his limitless gasbaggery. Biden could shout on "Meet the Press," "Get these squirrels off of me!" and the collective response would be, "There goes Joe again." But if Palin flubs the name of the deputy agriculture minister of Kyrgyzstan, the media will blow their whistles saying she's unprepared for the job.

Fair or not, that's how it works in the pros. But so far, it still looks as if the MVP title is hers to lose.
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Re: 2008 - No, not the EC, the U.S. Presidential Elections

Postby Falc on 09 Sep 2008, 01:10

Thanks Pabs. Olbermann has been the worst but Matthews did much to help Obama during the primaries. He got caught in the theme about making history.
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Re: 2008 - No, not the EC, the U.S. Presidential Elections

Postby Falc on 09 Sep 2008, 01:12

A post on a Washington Post blog ....

Obama is Arabic for Dukakis.


LOL
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Re: 2008 - No, not the EC, the U.S. Presidential Elections

Postby Falc on 09 Sep 2008, 01:17

Pabs - Here is another article about Matthews & Olbermann ...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... artsliving
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Re: 2008 - No, not the EC, the U.S. Presidential Elections

Postby Casati on 09 Sep 2008, 08:10

Well Olberman can be annoying. I thought his apology on behalf of MSNBC for showing the 9/11 tribute was uncalled for. I actually couldn't believe it when he said it.
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Re: 2008 - No, not the EC, the U.S. Presidential Elections

Postby Casati on 09 Sep 2008, 10:36

Falc wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eneq0jcMlTw


"Fox News... You swing to the right more than Ann Coultre's strap-on..." LMFAO!!! That was hysterical.
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Re: 2008 - No, not the EC, the U.S. Presidential Elections

Postby bineaz on 09 Sep 2008, 10:53

Pabs,

Do you know you seem to care about the US election more than many Americans?
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Re: 2008 - No, not the EC, the U.S. Presidential Elections

Postby Falc on 09 Sep 2008, 11:22

Bineaz - He is worried about his pesky neighbors.

Casati - That was funny.
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Re: 2008 - No, not the EC, the U.S. Presidential Elections

Postby Casati on 09 Sep 2008, 14:14

Triumph the Insult Comic Dog RULES!!!

I loved the way he just totally abused republicans. Frieking hysterical. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

A must see for Star Wars fans: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZ5HUmunDbk
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Re: 2008 - No, not the EC, the U.S. Presidential Elections

Postby Leonid on 09 Sep 2008, 14:28

What Did Obama Do As A Community Organizer?
And is it really a qualification to be president?

By Byron York


EDITOR’S NOTE: At last week’s Republican convention in St. Paul, vice-presidential nominee Sarah Palin, under fire from Democrats who belittled her experience as a small-town mayor, struck back at Barack Obama, questioning whether his experience as a community organizer is a qualification for the presidency. “I guess a small-town mayor is sort of like a community organizer,” Palin said, “except that you have actual responsibilities.” Palin’s remarks set off a controversy over Obama and community organizing, forcing Obama himself to defend his experience. But it also raised a more basic question: Just what did Obama do as an organizer in Chicago in the 1980s? A few months ago, NR’s Byron York traveled to Chicago to explore Obama’s experience there. He wrote this report for the June 30 issue of National Review:

Chicago — Barack Obama often cites his time as a community organizer here in Chicago as one of the experiences that qualify him to hold the nation’s highest office. “I can bring this country together,” he said in a debate last February. “I have a track record, starting from the days I moved to Chicago as a community organizer.”

When Obama says such things, the reaction among many observers is: Huh?

Audiences understand when he mentions his years as an Illinois state legislator, or his brief tenure in the U.S. Senate. But a community organizer? What’s that?

Even Obama didn’t know when he first gave it a try back in 1985. “When classmates in college asked me just what it was that a community organizer did, I couldn’t answer them directly,” Obama wrote in his memoir, Dreams from My Father. “Instead, I’d pronounce on the need for change. Change in the White House, where Reagan and his minions were carrying on their dirty deeds. Change in the Congress, compliant and corrupt. Change in the mood of the country, manic and self-absorbed. Change won’t come from the top, I would say. Change will come from a mobilized grass roots.”

If you substitute “Bush” for “Reagan,” you have a fairly accurate description of Obama’s 2008 campaign. That’s not a coincidence; it suggests that something about community organizing was central to Obama’s world view back then, and has remained central to his development as the politician he is today. What was it?

I counted myself among those who didn’t have a good idea of what a community organizer does. So I came here to learn more about Obama’s time in the job, from 1985 to 1988. What did he do? What did he accomplish? And what in his experience here stands as a qualification to be president of the United States?

THE RADICAL’S RULES
Perhaps the simplest way to describe community organizing is to say it is the practice of identifying a specific aggrieved population, say unemployed steelworkers, or itinerant fruit-pickers, or residents of a particularly bad neighborhood, and agitating them until they become so upset about their condition that they take collective action to put pressure on local, state, or federal officials to fix the problem, often by giving the affected group money. Organizers like to call that “direct action.”

Community organizing is most identified with the left-wing Chicago activist Saul Alinsky (1909-72), who pretty much defined the profession. In his classic book, Rules for Radicals, Alinsky wrote that a successful organizer should be “an abrasive agent to rub raw the resentments of the people of the community; to fan latent hostilities of many of the people to the point of overt expressions.” Once such hostilities were “whipped up to a fighting pitch,” Alinsky continued, the organizer steered his group toward confrontation, in the form of picketing, demonstrating, and general hell-raising. At first, the organizer tackled small stuff, like demanding the repair of streetlights in a city park; later, when the group gained confidence, the organizer could take on bigger targets. But at all times, the organizer’s goal was not to lead his people anywhere, but to encourage them to take action on their own behalf.

Alinsky started in the 1930s with workers in the Chicago stockyards. Many years later, when Obama arrived here, he came from a different perspective.

“Barack had been very inspired by the civil-rights movement,” Jerry Kellman, the organizer who hired Obama, told me recently. “I felt that he wanted to work in the civil-rights movement, but he was ten years too late, and this was the closest he could find to it at the time.” Obama, in his memoir, put it more simply when he said he went to Chicago to “organize black folks.”

Kellman, a New Yorker who had gotten into organizing in the 1960s, was trying to help laid-off factory workers on the far South Side of Chicago. He led a group, the Calumet Community Religious Conference, that had been created by several local Catholic churches. The Calumet region — basically the farthest southern reaches of Chicago plus the suburbs in northern Indiana — was an industrial area that had been hard hit by the closings of Wisconsin Steel and other industries. Kellman and the churches hoped to get some of those jobs back.

But there was a problem in the Chicago part of the equation. The area involved, around the Altgeld Gardens housing project and the neighborhood of Roseland, was nearly 100 percent black. Kellman was white, as were others who worked for CCRC. “The people didn’t open up to him like they would to somebody who was black and really understood what was going on in their lives,” Yvonne Lloyd, one of the key “leaders” — that is, local residents who worked closely with Obama — told me. “Black people are very leery when you come into their community and they don’t know you.” Lloyd and another leader, Loretta Augustine-Herron, insisted that Kellman hire a black organizer for a new spinoff from CCRC to be called the Developing Communities Project, which would focus solely on the Chicago part of the area.

So Kellman set out to find a black organizer. He ran an ad in some trade publications, and Obama responded. But at first Kellman wasn’t sure Obama was right for the job. “My wife was Japanese-American,” Kellman recalled. “I showed her the résumé, with the background in Hawaii. The name’s Obama, so I asked, ‘Could this be Japanese?’ She said, ‘Sure, it could be.’” It was only when Kellman talked to Obama on the phone, and Obama “expressed interest in something African-American culturally,” that a relieved Kellman offered Obama the job.

But Kellman had to sell Obama to the leaders. “Jerry introduces Barack, and Barack is so young, it’s like, ‘Oh my God,’” Loretta Augustine-Herron remembered. Obama was obviously smart, and he wanted to be an organizer, but he was, in fact, quite young (24) and he didn’t actually know much about the job. Despite those drawbacks, he seemed to work some sort of magic on the leaders. “He had a sensitivity I have never seen in anybody else to this day,” Augustine-Herron told me. “He understood.” The women were sold. “He didn’t have experience,” Augustine-Herron said. “But he had a sensitivity that allowed us to believe that he could do the job.” So Obama it was.

WHAT’S YOUR SELF-INTEREST?
New to Chicago, Obama set about conducting dozens of one-on-ones, that is, individual interviews with South Side residents in which he tried to discover which issues were most important to them. “You have to understand a person’s self-interest — that’s Alinsky’s terminology,” Mike Kruglik, an organizer who worked with Kellman and Obama, told me. “What’s happened to that person in his or her life? Where are they going? Why are they going there? What are they really passionate about?”

After the initial interviewing, Obama went to work on a number of projects.

The long-term goal was to retrain workers in order to restore manufacturing jobs in the area; Kellman took Obama by the rusted-out, closed-down Wisconsin Steel plant for a firsthand look. But the whole thing was a bit of a pipe dream, as the leaders soon discovered. “The idea was to interview these people and look at education, transferable skills, so that we could refer them to other industries,” Loretta Augustine-Herron told me as we drove by the site of the old factory, now completely torn down. “Well, they had no transferable skills. I remember interviewing one man who ran a steel-straightening machine. It straightened steel bars or something. I said, well, what did you do? And he told me he pushed a button, and the rods came in, and he pushed a button and it straightened them, and he pushed a button and it sent them somewhere else. That’s all he did. And he made big bucks doing it.”

That, of course, was one of the reasons the steel mill closed. And it became clear that neither Obama nor Kellman nor anyone else was going to change the direction of the steel industry and its unions in the United States. Somewhere along the line, everyone realized that those jobs wouldn’t be coming back.

So Obama looked for new opportunities. One thing he spent a lot of time on was creating a network of contacts beyond the white Catholic priests who originally sponsored the Developing Communities Project. “Many of the parishes were in predominantly African-American communities, and I think all of the priests were non-African-American,” Rev. Alvin Love, head of the Lilydale First Baptist Church on 113th Street, told me. “Barack came to me and wanted to try to connect with the whole community.”

Trying to construct a wide-ranging alliance of churches, Obama succeeded with Love and a few other ministers, but he was hampered by the fact that he didn’t go to church himself. “I said, ‘If you go to a pastor, and you ask him to come get involved in a community effort, and you say you have a group of churches, and that pastor asks you what church you belong to, and you say none — then it’s hard to get that pastor on board,’” Love recalled telling Obama. “He said, ‘I know, I understand, I’m working on it.’ He said, ‘I believe, I’m just waiting for the right spot, the right place, the right time.’” Love wasn’t the only minister to bring that up with Obama, and before long Obama, drawn to the preaching of Rev. Jeremiah Wright, joined Trinity United Church of Christ on 95th Street — where he would stay until political pressure created by Wright’s anti-American outbursts, combined with the anti-white message from another Obama friend, South Side priest Michael Pfleger, led him to resign his church membership.

Obama got the ministers involved in several projects, without great success. There was a push to get more city money for South Side parks after the Justice Department told the Chicago Park District it had to spend more on minority neighborhoods. There were plans for after-school programs, and job retraining for adults. But if you ask Obama’s fellow organizers what his most significant accomplishments were, they point to two ventures: the expansion of a city summer-job program for South Side teenagers and the removal of asbestos from one of the area’s oldest housing projects. Those, they say, were his biggest victories.
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Re: 2008 - No, not the EC, the U.S. Presidential Elections

Postby Leonid on 09 Sep 2008, 14:29

‘WE JUST FOUND OURSELVES AN ISSUE’
If you start in Chicago’s downtown Loop area, and drive south on the Bishop Ford Expressway, you’ll come to the 130th Street Exit amid an almost surreal landscape. To the left, there is the massive Continental Grain elevator complex, looming like a cluster of skyscrapers, with a rusting tanker moored nearby in the Calumet River. Not far away are a number of rotting, shut-down businesses. Farther south, there is the Waste Management CID Landfill, a vast, and growing, mountain of garbage. And to the right, there is the Calumet Water Reclamation Plant, better known as the sludge plant, treating sewage from all around the region. And in the middle of it all is Altgeld Gardens, a sprawling brick low-rise housing project built in the 1940s in what is probably the least people-friendly location one could ever imagine.

Loretta Augustine-Herron lived here for a while in the 1960s, and one day in May she took me around in her pickup truck. In those days, she said, there was an awful smell coming across 130th Street from the sludge plant. “Sometimes when the wind blew the wrong way, you could not take a deep breath,” she said. “It was horrible.” And isolated, too: Then, as now, there were no stores, or restaurants, or much of anything in easy walking distance of Altgeld. You can’t take a train, because there are none around. And you can forget about a taxi. The best way to get around is the bus, which makes regular runs through the complex. Still, the sense of isolation is considerable.

Near the back of the Altgeld complex is a tightly locked gymnasium and a low, brown-brick building closed in by a chain-link fence, topped in places with barbed wire. It is Our Lady of the Gardens church, where Augustine-Herron and Yvonne Lloyd met, and where they got to know Barack Obama. And it was here that much of his career as an activist was set.

A staple priority of organizers like Obama was the summer-jobs program. In the 1980s the jobs were administered by the Mayor’s Office of Employment and Training, or MET, but the nearest MET office to Altgeld was a long way away — beyond 95th Street — and located in what some felt was enemy territory. “Our children, in order to get those summer-job programs, had to go over to the East Side — Vrdolyak’s territory,” Yvonne Lloyd told me, referring to Edward “Fast Eddie” Vrdolyak, the Chicago alderman who was the champion of white ethnics and a sworn enemy of Harold Washington, the black mayor whose presence had inspired blacks across the city, including Obama.

“So, if you’re living in Altgeld, you don’t have the bus fare to go way over there, and they were out of their element, and they ended up not getting the jobs.” Why not demand a job center in their neighborhood? In Dreams from My Father, Obama describes visiting MET headquarters and looking at a brochure listing the locations of all branch offices. There was nothing south of 95th Street. “This is it,” he said. “We just found ourselves an issue.”

Obama then choreographed a drive to demand a new MET office. (The point, remember, was not for him to make the demands but for the leaders to do it for themselves.) They set up a meeting with MET officials, and then Obama drilled the leaders on what they should say. He took them around Roseland looking for a possible site for the new office. They found a shut-down department store at Michigan Avenue and 110th Street, and located the building’s owners. “He did all the legwork for us and brought it back to us,” Lloyd told me, “and we went downtown to the offices of the store and negotiated.” In a climactic meeting at Our Lady of the Gardens — Obama had, once again, carefully rehearsed the leaders on what they should say — MET officials agreed to open the new office. Obama had an accomplishment to point to.

“Our kids were able to go there, sign up, and get their summer jobs,” Lloyd told me. “It was fantastic to me, I just felt like — oh, it meant so much to us.” They were thrilled beyond words when Harold Washington himself came to the ribbon-cutting for the new office.

BATTLE OVER ASBESTOS
The other Obama accomplishment most people mention is the asbestos cleanup at Altgeld. One day someone — it’s not clear who — noticed that some rather specialized work seemed to be going on at the management office in the center of the complex. “A young lady came to us and said they’ve got white suits on and they’re doing something in the office,” Yvonne Lloyd told me. “We asked them what they were doing and they said, ‘We’re renovating.’ That didn’t sound right. Why would they be wearing all this gear if they were just renovating?” It turned out the workers were removing asbestos from the building.


In Obama’s telling, the problem was discovered when a young woman noticed a small-print notice in the classified section of a newspaper, soliciting bids for asbestos cleanup at Altgeld. However it began, it didn’t take the residents long to guess that if asbestos was in the office, it might be in their apartments, too. That discovery led to Obama’s greatest hit as an organizer.

Obama recruited the young woman to pay a visit to the Chicago Housing Authority official who worked at the management office. Obama went too, hoping the official would deny that there was any asbestos in the apartments. “A cover-up would generate as much publicity as the asbestos, I had told myself,” Obama wrote in Dreams from My Father. “Publicity would make my job easier.” And sure enough, the CHA official denied it all.

Obama followed up — had the residents follow up, of course — with letters to top CHA officials. Finally, the group sent a message to the agency’s executive director, warning they would show up at his office to demand action. They got in touch with local TV stations, and everyone came to cover the asbestos showdown.

As it turned out, there was no showdown. CHA officials accommodated the protesters, promising to begin testing the Altgeld apartments for asbestos that very day. They also promised to attend a meeting at Our Lady of the Gardens to listen to everyone’s concerns. A few weeks later, the director of CHA himself came to the church’s gymnasium, where Obama’s group was prepared to present a demand for timely repairs. Perhaps 300 people came, along with the TV crews. Things veered toward fiasco when the young woman Obama had chosen to question the CHA director wouldn’t give up the microphone so the director could answer. A semi-comic tug-of-war ensued, with the director finally bolting the meeting, followed by an increasingly angry crowd.

It was a fiasco, and racial conspiracy theories quickly spread among the residents. “The whole thing was put together by Vrdolyak,” Obama quotes one man saying. “You saw that white man egging the folks on. They just trying to make Harold look bad.” Obama was deflated; at the very least, the big show was a setback to his effort. It was precisely the sort of scene he had wanted to avoid. “He said, ‘Don’t get confrontational, don’t raise your voice, don’t scream and holler,’” Yvonne Lloyd told me. “He said, ‘You’ll get more the other way.’” (Jerry Kellman told me that Obama was not “a straight Alinsky organizer,” and his advice to Lloyd at Altgeld suggests that he generally preferred to avoid overt confrontation.)

The organizers ended up winning anyway, although the cleanup wasn’t finished until years later. But something had changed for Obama during the asbestos fight, and he began to consider leaving Chicago for law school. As he looked back, he believed that, on one hand, he had trained some good people; Loretta Augustine-Herron, for example, told me he inspired her to go to college, which led her to a satisfying career. But on the other hand, Obama seemed to realize that it was very, very hard to get anything done. “He didn’t see organizing making any significant changes in things,” Jerry Kellman recalled.

The solution, Obama felt, was to find a way to political power of his own.

“He was constantly thinking about his path to significance and power,” Mike Kruglik told me. “He said, ‘I need to go there [Harvard Law School] to find out more about power. How do powerful people think? What kind of networks do they have? How do they connect to each other?’”

In a few months, Obama was gone. He had been an organizer for three years. When he returned to Chicago after law school, he did some voter-registration work and then joined a civil-rights practice. In 1996, he ran for the state senate. Eight years later, he was elected to the U.S. Senate, and within a year after that he was exploring a run for president.

THE ORGANIZER
We look to formative experiences to help us understand presidential candidates. Visit an aircraft carrier in wartime and you’ll learn something about John McCain. Pilots fly off the deck, and sometimes they come back, and sometimes they don’t. One day, McCain didn’t, and began the time as a prisoner of war that both revealed his character and launched his political career. No matter what he has done since, the U.S. Navy is the culture that made McCain, with his heavy emphasis on duty, honor, and country.

Community organizing is just as essential in understanding Obama. But what does it say about him?

The first thing is that he has a talent for, well, organizing. Everyone who worked with Obama says he was good at the job. And he has used the techniques he learned in Chicago to organize his own presidential campaign, going so far as to enlist Mike Kruglik to help start a “Camp Obama” program to instill organizing principles into Obama supporters. The result is a campaign that even Obama’s opponents admit is a very impressive operation.

But Obama’s time in Chicago also revealed the conventionality of his approach to the underlying problems of the South Side. Is the area crippled by a culture of dysfunction? Demand summer jobs. Push for an after-school program. Convince the city to spend more on this or that. It was the same old stuff; Obama could think outside the box on ways to organize people, but not on what he was organizing them for.

Certainly no one should live in an apartment contaminated by asbestos, but Obama did not seem to question, or at least question very strongly, the notion that the people he wanted to organize should be living in Altgeld at all. The place was, after all, one of the nation’s capitals of dysfunction. “Every ten years I would work on the census,” Yvonne Lloyd told me. “I always had Altgeld. When you look at those forms from the census, you had three or four generations in one apartment — the grandmother, the mother, the daughter, and then her baby. It was supposed to be a stepping stone, but you’ve got people that are never going to leave.”

No doubt Obama would agree that that is a bad thing, but when a real attempt to break through that culture of dysfunction — the landmark 1996 welfare-reform bill, now widely accepted as one of the most successful domestic-policy initiatives in a generation — came up, Obama vowed to use all the resources at his disposal to undo it. “I made sure our new welfare system didn’t punish people by kicking them off the rolls,” he said in 1999. Two years earlier, he had declared: “We want to make sure that there is health care, child care, job training, and transportation vouchers — everything that is needed to ensure that those who need it will have support.” Obama applied his considerable organizational skills to perpetuating the old, failed way of doing things.

Obama’s professional colleagues, people like Jerry Kellman, believe his lasting accomplishment was to build an organization, the Developing Communities Project, that survived his departure. Today, DCP still exists, run out of a small Methodist church building on 95th Street, working on after-school programs, drug prevention, and voter registration. It has become, much more than it was when Obama was there, a grant-getting institution; according to tax records, about three-quarters of its funding comes from government grants, with the rest from liberal foundations like the Woods Fund, on whose board Obama sat from 1993 to 2002.

Has any of that brought about the change Obama spoke of back in 1985? Not in any large sense. But if Obama doesn’t have much to show for his years as an organizer, it’s fair to say that many of the people he touched revere him deeply. Remember what Loretta Augustine-Herron said: Obama had such a powerful presence that he made her believe he could do the job, even though there was little in his résumé to suggest he could. Does that sound familiar to anyone who has watched the Obama campaign? When hope is the product, Obama can sell it with the best of them.

When he left for law school, Obama wondered what he had accomplished as an organizer. He certainly had some achievements, but he did not — perhaps could not — concede that there might be something wrong with his approach to Chicago’s problems. Instead of questioning his own premises, he concluded that he simply needed more power to get the job done. So he made plans to run for political office. And in each successive office, he has concluded that he did not have enough power to get the job done, so now he is running for the most powerful office in the land.

And what if he gets it? He’ll be the biggest, strongest organizer in the world. He’ll dazzle the country with his message of hope and possibility. But we shouldn’t expect much to actually get done.
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Re: 2008 - No, not the EC, the U.S. Presidential Elections

Postby bineaz on 09 Sep 2008, 15:02

The best way to save the Republican Party now is to destroy it. In the marketplace of ideas, social conservatism is a viral infection contaminating the GOP. It represents an evolutionary dead-end whose logical conclusion is fascism if not outright totalitarianism. Is it not obvious that the imposition of the evangelical ideology--any fundamentalist ideology for that matter--lies in direct opposition to a free people in a democratic land? Our Constitution, specifically the separation of church and state, no longer serves as a bulwark against the morality police, who seek to impose faith-based notions such as creationism upon those of us with rational minds. Social conservatives aim to constrain freedom of thought, freedom of choice, freedom to pursue happiness. These freedoms live at the heart of an entrepreneurial and economically strong America. No doubt, the diktat the social conservative movement wishes to impose upon ALL us Americans is antithetical to a free market system, and therefore exists as hypocrisy within the Republican platform. Privatize profits, socialize losses, and make religion the opiate of the masses. Indeed, this has been a dark eight years of Orwellian doubletalk. Enough! I’m a Goldwater Republican and I’m voting for Libertarian Bob Barr.


The ineptitude of the Obama campaign, mirroring Kerry in'04, is maddening. Ineptitude is the only way to explain how Palin can give the GOP a bounce.

Notice that the Dems are even fearful of attacking McCain's foreign policy credentials. Being a POW has nothing to do with foreign policy expertise. McCain said we would be greeted as liberators and Iraqi oil would pay for it. He has made numerous blunders, such as saying there was an Iraqi-Pakistani border, and not knowing the difference between shia and sunni.

How dense can Dems be not to highlight that? Instead, every mention of McCain is greeted with the term 'war hero' as if they have to apologize for any critique. And, as if the GOP did that with Kerry?

As for Palin, do not even get me started. One does not have to attack her for being a woman. Being a far-right religious extremist, with out-of-the-mainstream views on creationism, global warming, birth control, abortion (ideally, she would force a girl, raped by her father, to conceive), and a whole host of other issues, is another story. Not to mention the total lie about the bridge to nowhere and her being anti-earmarks.

I am fed up with the Dems playing defense. Learn how to play offense....or lose.


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Re: 2008 - No, not the EC, the U.S. Presidential Elections

Postby bineaz on 09 Sep 2008, 15:16

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Re: 2008 - No, not the EC, the U.S. Presidential Elections

Postby Falc on 09 Sep 2008, 17:06

Obama, in his memoir, put it more simply when he said he went to Chicago to “organize black folks.


LOL

But there was a problem in the Chicago part of the equation. The area involved, around the Altgeld Gardens housing project and the neighborhood of Roseland, was nearly 100 percent black. Kellman was white, as were others who worked for CCRC. “The people didn’t open up to him like they would to somebody who was black and really understood what was going on in their lives,” Yvonne Lloyd, one of the key “leaders” — that is, local residents who worked closely with Obama — told me. “Black people are very leery when you come into their community and they don’t know you.” Lloyd and another leader, Loretta Augustine-Herron, insisted that Kellman hire a black organizer for a new spinoff from CCRC to be called the Developing Communities Project, which would focus solely on the Chicago part of the area.

So Kellman set out to find a black organizer.


So he hires a black guy, raised by white folks in Hawaii! LOL
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Re: 2008 - No, not the EC, the U.S. Presidential Elections

Postby mate on 09 Sep 2008, 18:03

Guys, look around you and what is happening to the US economy. There is a chance that it will crash...and I do mean crash...with the rest of the world simply moving on, with Russia and China positioned to take over the vacuum of power. Consider the permutations, but I hardly think this bodes well for any of our interests, especially those of our children and grand children.

Meanwhile, we remain mired in self immolating identity politics that are actually quite socialist in their egalitarian insistence on electing mediocrity. Don't get me wrong, it is democracy in action, but there are consequences for making dumb choices.
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Re: 2008 - No, not the EC, the U.S. Presidential Elections

Postby Leonid on 09 Sep 2008, 18:30

National Review

Change you can believe in: We’ve been wondering for 35 years what it would take to get Joe Biden out of the Senate.


Bill Ayers is an unrepentant terrorist responsible for various bombings. He is also a friend of Barack Obama, who now dismisses Ayers as just “some guy who lives in my neighborhood” — albeit a guy who, along with his wife and fellow Weather Underground terrorist Bernardine Dohrn, hosted Obama’s political coming-out party at their home in 1995. In fact, Obama and Ayers had a close working relationship. They sat together on the board of the Woods Fund, a left-wing charity, and collaborated on an education “reform” project called the Chicago Annenberg Challenge, begun in 1995 when an Ayers proposal won a huge foundation grant. Ayers ran the CAC’s operational arm; Obama chaired the board. Together, they were responsible for distributing over $100 million — with no discernible improvement in Chicago’s schools but great advantage for their ideological allies. This summer, after being assured of access, frequent National Review contributor Stanley Kurtz was barred from reviewing the CAC records housed at the University of Illinois at Chicago, where Ayers is a professor of education. As we went to press, the ban had been lifted after considerable public pressure. But the attempts to suppress this story continue. After a conservative group ran an ad attacking Obama’s association with Ayers, Obama asked the feds to investigate the group. And he says that Bush is trampling our civil liberties?


Another indicator for Bernanke to watch: Organized-crime groups are increasingly conducting their business in the euro, a Canadian report found. Perhaps gangster rappers will start wearing euro symbols around their necks.
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Re: 2008 - No, not the EC, the U.S. Presidential Elections

Postby Leonid on 09 Sep 2008, 19:51

The Wall Street Journal
James Taranto

I'm With Not Stupid

Democratic presidential nominee Barack Obama is sticking with his unconventional strategy of attacking the Republican vice presidential nominee. The Associated Press reports from Flint, Mich., where Obama spoke yesterday:

"I mean, you can't just make stuff up," Obama said of a new McCain ad that says Palin "stopped the Bridge to Nowhere." "You can't just recreate yourself. You can't just reinvent yourself. The American people aren't stupid."

Which raises some questions. First, is the Associated Press stupid? Here's an AP report published in the New York Times last Sept. 22:

Gov. Sarah Palin ordered state transportation officials to abandon the ''bridge to nowhere'' project that became a nationwide symbol of federal pork-barrel spending. The $398 million bridge would have connected Ketchikan, on one island in southeastern Alaska, to its airport on another nearby island. ''Ketchikan desires a better way to reach the airport,'' Ms. Palin, a Republican, said in a news release, ''but the $398 million bridge is not the answer.'' She directed the State Transportation Department to find the most ''fiscally responsible'' alternative for access to the airport.
Second, does Obama really think that voters will respond well to being told they "aren't stupid"?

Does he compliment Michelle by saying, "Honey, you aren't ugly"?
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Re: 2008 - No, not the EC, the U.S. Presidential Elections

Postby agentesecreto on 09 Sep 2008, 21:41

yawn at fair and balanced cut and paste jobs.
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Re: 2008 - No, not the EC, the U.S. Presidential Elections

Postby agentesecreto on 09 Sep 2008, 21:54

Record Contradicts Palin's 'Bridge' Claims
By ELIZABETH HOLMES and LAURA MECKLER
September 9, 2008

The Bridge to Nowhere argument isn't going much of anywhere.

Despite significant evidence to the contrary, the McCain campaign continues to assert that Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin told the federal government "thanks but no thanks" to the now-famous bridge to an island in her home state.

The McCain campaign released a television advertisement Monday morning titled "Original Mavericks." The narrator of the 30-second spot boasts about the pair: "He fights pork-barrel spending. She stopped the Bridge to Nowhere."

Gov. Palin, who John McCain named as his running mate less than two weeks ago, quickly adopted a stump line bragging about her opposition to the pork-barrel project Sen. McCain routinely decries.


But Gov. Palin's claim comes with a serious caveat. She endorsed the multimillion dollar project during her gubernatorial race in 2006. And while she did take part in stopping the project after it became a national scandal, she did not return the federal money. She just allocated it elsewhere.

"We need to come to the defense of Southeast Alaska when proposals are on the table like the bridge," Gov. Palin said in August 2006, according to the local newspaper, "and not allow the spinmeisters to turn this project or any other into something that's so negative." The bridge would have linked Ketchikan to the airport on Gravina Island. Travelers from Ketchikan (pop. 7,500) now rely on ferries.

A year ago, the governor issued a press release that the money for the project was being "redirected."

"Ketchikan desires a better way to reach the airport, but the $398 million bridge is not the answer," she said. "Despite the work of our congressional delegation, we are about $329 million short of full funding for the bridge project, and it's clear that Congress has little interest in spending any more money on a bridge between Ketchikan and Gravina Island. Much of the public's attitude toward Alaska bridges is based on inaccurate portrayals of the projects here. But we need to focus on what we can do, rather than fight over what has happened."

On Monday in Missouri, Gov. Palin put it this way: "I told Congress thanks but no thanks for that bridge to nowhere. If the state wanted to build a bridge we would built it ourselves."

Senior adviser Mark Salter pointed to her role in killing the project while in office and allocating the money elsewhere. When pressed further that it was actually Congress that stopped the earmark, Mr. Salter said: "She stopped it, too. She did her part." Mr. Salter added that he welcomed a fight over earmarks with the Obama campaign.


Democratic candidate Barack Obama used a town-hall style event in Flint, Mich., to attack Gov. Palin over the "Bridge to Nowhere" debate. He accused the vice presidential nominee of lobbying for the bridge and then hiding her initial position when she ran for governor and the project became unpopular.

"You can't just make stuff up. You can't just recreate yourself. The American people aren't stupid," he said. It's like "being for it before you were against it," Sen. Obama said, a reference to a damaging statement John Kerry made in 2004.

Why is this one issue such a big deal? Sen. McCain's anti-earmarks stance has been paramount to his campaign. The Arizona senator has blamed everything from the Minneapolis bridge collapse to Hurricane Katrina on Congress's willingness to stuff bills full of pork barrel spending.

As such, Gov. Palin's image as a "reformer" is part of the storyline the McCain campaign needs to complement the top of its ticket. Her quip about passing on the bridge and "building it ourselves" has been a staple of her stump.

But she's drawn considerable fire as result. Sen. Obama's campaign released an advertisement pointing out her original support of the bridge. And on Monday, an Obama staffer emailed a photo of Gov. Palin holding up a T-shirt that was made shortly after the bridge caught national attention. It reads "NOWHERE ALASKA" and "99901," the zip code of Ketchikan.

The McCain campaign jumped back with spokesman Brian Rogers calling the attacks "hysterical."

"The only people 'lying' about spending are the Obama campaign. The only explanation for their hysterical attacks is that they're afraid that when John McCain and Sarah Palin are in the White House, Barack Obama's nearly $1 billion in earmark spending will stop dead in its tracks," Mr. Rogers said.

At a rally today, Sen. McCain again asserted that Sen. Obama has requested nearly a billion in earmarks. In fact, the Illinois senator requested $311 million last year, according to the Associated Press, and none this year. In comparison, Gov. Palin has requested $750 million in her two years as governor -- which the AP says is the largest per-capita request in the nation.

--Amy Chozick contributed to this story.

Write to Elizabeth Holmes at elizabeth.holmes@wsj.com and Laura Meckler at laura.meckler@wsj.com
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Re: 2008 - No, not the EC, the U.S. Presidential Elections

Postby Pabs on 09 Sep 2008, 22:12

Falc, thanks for the link

Bineaz, I'm actually enjoying it But it's getting too long. 1 year is too much. Our PM called an election last week. It will be over before US election day :)

mmaggi, I've seen that dozens of times. Absolutely hyterical.
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Re: 2008 - No, not the EC, the U.S. Presidential Elections

Postby Falc on 10 Sep 2008, 00:44

You can, uhm, put lipstick on a pig, you know, but, uhm, it is still, uhm, a pig!
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Re: 2008 - No, not the EC, the U.S. Presidential Elections

Postby mate on 10 Sep 2008, 02:08

Falc wrote:
You can, uhm, put lipstick on a pig, you know, but, uhm, it is still, uhm, a pig!


I cannot believe this. I really can't.

:cry:
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Re: 2008 - No, not the EC, the U.S. Presidential Elections

Postby Pabs on 10 Sep 2008, 02:17

lol @ Falc

no kidding. Looking at Barry up there concentrating with all his energy to make sure he got the punchline right was so funny. Is there ever a time when these guys not pre-read their statements ?

Whoever wins this Presidency is going to provide late night TV with many great opening monologues :D

And we thought Shrub was bad ? He's actually calmed down with his stupid comments compared to his first term.
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Re: 2008 - No, not the EC, the U.S. Presidential Elections

Postby Pabs on 10 Sep 2008, 02:23

mate wrote:
Falc wrote:
You can, uhm, put lipstick on a pig, you know, but, uhm, it is still, uhm, a pig!


I cannot believe this. I really can't.

:cry:


mate

do you mean after todays remarks or did you just find out that he can't walk on water.

You like football, right ? Is it safe to say that Obama "peaked too soon" ? :Hmmm:
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Re: 2008 - No, not the EC, the U.S. Presidential Elections

Postby pramzan on 10 Sep 2008, 08:45

Triumph the dog rules. Very funny.
But I do wonder why Agnelli ever allowed the appalling late Italo Allodi to be made general manager of Juventus when all Italy knew how he had "run" Solti on behalf of Inter for many years. -Glanville
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Re: 2008 - No, not the EC, the U.S. Presidential Elections

Postby agentesecreto on 10 Sep 2008, 09:07

How about Louise Heath the smiling pig?
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Re: 2008 - No, not the EC, the U.S. Presidential Elections

Postby agentesecreto on 10 Sep 2008, 09:50

Tim Rutten
September 10, 2008
» Discuss Article Connoisseurs of campaign tactics tend to be a pretty cynical bunch, so they'll doubtless find much to admire in the adroit way Sen. John McCain's camp has handled Sarah Palin since she came aboard the ticket. Voters, who tend to nourish an inconvenient hunger for information, may be less impressed. One suspects that sooner rather than later, some will begin to wonder why the GOP is insisting that Palin is entitled to be treated according to a double standard.

McCain's campaign manager, Rick Davis, deserved full marks for chutzpah, for example, when he told Fox News' Chris Wallace that Palin would not answer reporters' questions "until the point in time when she'll be treated with respect and deference."

Deference?

Respect and courtesy, maybe. Everybody is entitled to those -- including candidates for office -- and journalists seldom look worse than when they forget that. But deference? The president does not require deference from his media interlocutors, but the ambitious governor of Alaska does?

Palin, Davis said, "will do interviews, but she'll do them on the terms and conditions" dictated by McCain's campaign -- which is to say, according to a standard that applies to no other candidate for office anywhere in the country. (ABC's Charles Gibson will conduct the first Palin interview Thursday; it will be interesting to see whether he agrees to preconditions.)

The McCain campaign's insistence on imposing a double standard for Palin is nowhere clearer than in the demand, voiced by many of the candidate's surrogates, that her religious affiliations and their implications be placed off-limits. The GOP was on firmer ground when it made a similar demand with regard to her children, though it's safe to say that if Sen. Barack Obama had appeared in Denver with his unmarried pregnant daughter and the father of her child, the religious right's outraged screams still would be echoing in the nation's ear.

Palin's religious convictions should be open to inquiry, not least because the McCain campaign so obviously welcomes the support of evangelicals who support the ticket because Palin believes as they do. More important, Obama has been held to answer -- and rightly so -- for his connection to the Rev. Jeremiah Wright and the pastor's intemperate views on everything from race to 9/11. Obama was forced to give a speech disassociating himself from Wright and finally to leave Wright's church.

Nobody seriously questioned the right of the media -- or, for that matter, the Illinois senator's political opponents -- to ask whether Obama agreed with what was being preached in the church he'd chosen to join. Similarly, no one turned a hair when Joe Biden was asked on national TV when he, as a Roman Catholic, believed life began. McCain has been asked the same question. Palin, apparently, operates in a parallel political universe -- or at least McCain's handlers would like to see that she does.

Less than a month ago, Palin sat in the pews at the Wasilla Bible Church, to which she and her family belong, and listened to a sermon by David Brickner, who heads Jews for Jesus, a group cited by the Anti-Defamation League for its "aggressive and deceptive" proselytizing of Jews. Brickner said that Arab terrorism against the state of Israel was an expression of God's judgment on the Jewish people for their rejection of Christ. After Brickner concluded his remarks, a special collection was taken up to support the sect's activities.

A spokesman for the McCain campaign said Palin does not agree with Brickner's views, but somehow it's the kind of question a candidate ought to be able to answer for herself. Voters might also like to know whether Palin supports, as does her church, an upcoming conference that promises to change gays and lesbians into heterosexuals through the power of prayer. That conference, by the way, is being put on by James Dobson's Focus on the Family, one of the national evangelical organizations that discovered a sudden enthusiasm for the GOP ticket when Palin joined.

Ingenious though it may be tactically, it's hard to imagine the Palin double standard enduring into the fall. Campaign connoisseurs not withstanding, politics isn't a sport, though it has at least one thing in common with the boxing ring -- you can run, but you can't hide.

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Re: 2008 - No, not the EC, the U.S. Presidential Elections

Postby Falc on 10 Sep 2008, 11:04

There are those trying to make the lipstick remark as just some old line that politicians use. That even McCain has used that line. But it makes you question if Obama is as smart as many try to make him out to be. If he was so smart, he should have known the timing of the remark would have this affect. Or perhaps it was a stab at Palin afterall. Either way, it was stupid.
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Re: 2008 - No, not the EC, the U.S. Presidential Elections

Postby bineaz on 10 Sep 2008, 12:24

mate wrote:Guys, look around you and what is happening to the US economy. There is a chance that it will crash...and I do mean crash...with the rest of the world simply moving on, with Russia and China positioned to take over the vacuum of power. Consider the permutations, but I hardly think this bodes well for any of our interests, especially those of our children and grand children.

Meanwhile, we remain mired in self immolating identity politics that are actually quite socialist in their egalitarian insistence on electing mediocrity. Don't get me wrong, it is democracy in action, but there are consequences for making dumb choices.


Meanwhile...we remain mired in personality conflicts, like lipstick on a pig. Obama is foolish for even referencing Palin.

And the media is eating it up. It's unbelievable she has yet to sit down and answer questions; it's been how long long? Oh yeah, her first time will be on 9/11. Republicans have taken the momentum, but the cracks are also beginning with the Palin fairy tale (bridge to nowhere; taking per diem from Alaskan tax payers when staying at home)....
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Re: 2008 - No, not the EC, the U.S. Presidential Elections

Postby Casati on 10 Sep 2008, 12:51

Falc wrote:There are those trying to make the lipstick remark as just some old line that politicians use. That even McCain has used that line. But it makes you question if Obama is as smart as many try to make him out to be. If he was so smart, he should have known the timing of the remark would have this affect. Or perhaps it was a stab at Palin afterall. Either way, it was stupid.


Falc - I think you're making a mountain out of mole hill. McCain's camp has taken this out of context. Don't do the same. The McCain camp should be attacking Obama and his polices. That's what is so sad about this election year: it's a popularity contest and no one is talking about the issues and the plans.
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