World Forums

I rather see her in Hustler.

Palin is getting prepped for tonight. Would it make sense to send her out the the media hounds with the way they have been acting? She will get her time. I find it hilarious that such a fuss is being made about her vetting process. That it was completed on Wednesday and McCain made his decision on Thursday. So what? Did he need to do like Obama and mull over for weeks and weeks with staff members preparing dossiers on every second cousin? Let's see, Putin invades the Ukraine. President Obama calls Vice President Biden and the staff with a deadline to make a decision in two weeks. Just what we need in the White House. McCain made his decision. He did not need to think it over and over. Would the same fuss be made if he chose Governor Pawlenty of Minnesota? It would have happened the same way.

Falc

Obviously there's too much risk (ie too much to hide about her lack of experience). I don't care about the vetting process since it's obvious why McCain made this chess move, a move that was based on vetting and McCain having a 15 minute conversation with her. But the move will backfire (not that Obama needed any help). Just talk to any woman about the move and you'll get an earful about how this move is insulting to them (thinking they would for McCain because he selected Palin).

Casati

Palin is reminding me more and more of George Bush. She probably will excel in giving scripted speeches, playing to a demographic stereotype. Worst of all, I fear she will match Bush for incompetence at the job. Of course, there will be opportunities for interactive debate and interviews, so I will be open minded about this.

But man, this all seems like a bloody nightmare. This is the best America has to offer? Actually, when I honestly review the slate of candidates, when all is said and done, only Obama to me really seems like presidential material. You hit the nail on the head when you noted Republican logical fallacies in promoting candidates that are deeply flawed. I am sick and tired of what has been paraded these past 8 years as Executive Leadership.

With Palin, most apologists defend her mediocrity through Falc's elitism defense. She's just a good old American mom with a good old American family and any questioning of her ability is elitist.



I know my history and understand that talent and caliber often comes from humble beginnings. But, the operative point is that no matter what your background, show some talent and caliber. I hate being insulted by pushing mediocrity under the banner of egalitarianism. Top leadership positions are not egalitarian, especially when it comes to academic and applied experience.

Oh Mate, the best that America has to offer is Obama? Get real. He is so far off from presidential material. You go for the glitz. You go for the popularity. Everything that you have criticized about our pop culture mentality gives you Barack Obama. I don't understand your blindness. Let me ask this of you, if Obama was the exact same person but attended undergrad at SUNY Binghampton and law school at Florida International, would you be on your knees like you are now?

Oh Mate, the best that America has to offer is Obama?

I didn't say that. I said he was the best of the candidates on the current slate. You also know me well enough by now to understand that I supported Reagan and consider him the best president of my lifetime.

What was his elite background?



It's ultimately common sense and instinct Falc. I deeply respect McCain, but there is a 1/3 chance he will die in the next 4 years, statistically speaking. Given his health issues and age, sorry, but this has always been an issue in and of itself. Now that Palin would be his successor, this is even truer.

And, as I keep telling Leo, all things being equal, I am not voting for a Republican outfit that has badly mismanaged this country for 8 years. Obama is keeping things equal, so I remain on track to cast votes for the Democrats.

Well, I disagree with you. He is tied for third on my list.

So, are you going to answer my question?

Mate

As much as I abhor Bush Jr, I must admit that being governor of the state of Texas is a hec of alot more executive experience (I forgot for how many years) than governing Alaska for 20 months. What just absolutely scares me is the thought that McCain/Palin get elected and McCain gets sick to the point where Palin has to take over.

And I can't believe that there are Republicans who are actually accepting this choice. She has limited experience. What relationships has she formed in Washington? Does she even know any of McCain's croonies and business associates? She lives in frieking Alaska for crying out loud. Who does she know that McCain knows? Sorry but they have nothing in common.

If the McCain camp really wanted a female veep than why not Olimpia Snowe of Maine? She's a republican, has a great record with regards to the environment and has a great and respectable reputation on the hill and people know her!

Falc

I answered your question.

Casati

I completely agree. More and more this looks like McCain did not call the shots. Romney and Lieberman would have been more compelling. Also, if he needed a woman, there were much better candidates.

For all this bullshit about Executive Leadership potential, I am sure Carly Fiorina would have answered the call. Now we are being bullshitted that Governor of Alaska is Executive Leadership and that being Commander in Chief of the Alaskan National Guard is military experience.

What was [Reagan's] elite background?

He once was a radio announcer for Chicago Cubs games. Really. Unlike you guys, it’s hard for me to come up with extensive discussions on these issues, but useless trivia? It's on the tip of my tongue, or keyboard if you will.

My 2cents on Palin is she was a strategic (some say cynical) choice. The criticism in her direction is to be expected with her lack of high level political experience. Comparing Obama's experience with hers is a joke. There is no way she can match what Obama has gone through under the microscope during the presidential campaign.

I'm not wide-eyed about Obama. The fact he cut his political teeth in Chicago gives me pause (Leo is correct, it is the most corrupt city). Yet he has proceeded to galvanize strong support from people disinterested or disenfranchised from the political process. For my son's sake, I hope he becomes President (the alternative is not acceptable) but more so I hope he can truly deliver even half of what he promises. This country is at a cross-road that requires our best to rise up as they have in previous generations. Has Obama convinced me he's the best that we need, no, but he hasn't shown me he's not. He's the best choice I have. FORZA America.

For the record I may disagree with my good friend Falc on this issue, but knowing him a little better than you guys, I know he's an honorable American and someone who cares about this country very much. And race doesn't factor in that equation. Having said that give 'em hell.

I can imagine the hatefest by the Donkey media machine against Carly Fiorina. We would be reminded endlessly about working-class Scranton, PA (which Joe Schmoe Biden left 50 years ago) against the aristocratic Hewlett-Packard pedigree.

Mate, as a Christian you aren't supposed to create and worship idols.

Repeat after me: George Bush, John McCain, Sarah Palin, John Kerry, Barack Obama, Joe Biden and Nancy 20% rating Pelosi are no better Americans and candidates than Falc, Leo, Bineaz and Mate. Amen.

More and more this looks like McCain did not call the shots. Romney and Lieberman would have been more compelling. Also, if he needed a woman, there were much better candidates.

mate, I'm curious, who do you think did (call the shots)?

If anything, Palin should be familiar with oil drilling issues in Alaska, even if she may lean too far to one side. This is a tangential, but concrete issue in the campaign. Our energy policy questions are exemplified by the decision to expand drilling to more sensitive areas, especially Alaska. I'm sure along with the literal-bible belters, pro-life proponents, and the NRA, the oil companies (gag-Cheney-gag) are happy with her.

Sarah Palin would represent our country with dignity while attending funeral ceremonies for Vlad Putin, Hugo Chavez, Fidel Castro, Ah-Mah-Jean and various Hezbollah chiefs.

Leo

I'm not a fan of Carly and have ripped her apart in past discussions. Trust me, I heard some choice words by senior Wall Street I-Bankers about her competence in the past. And, we all know what she did to HP.

My point was that on paper she is far more qualified as an Executive than Sarah Palin. Why not go for her? Or are we really to believe that Sarah represents uncommon potential that isn't picked up by standard measures...such as grades or professional achievement.

You and Falc keep spinning this as elitism red herring. It isn't. I already mentioned Reagan. I also would support Bill Gates or Larry Ellison. I would support a top military officer. The main criteria is a record of success, intelligence, and character. Sorry, but Sarah doesn't have these in abundance. Period.

Bineaz

mate, I'm curious, who do you think did (call the shots)?

I was just thinking out loud. But, I speculate that McCain wanted somebody like Lieberman. However, Rove and like minded brokers in the party probably thought that the Evangelical base was already compromised as is, so they went with somebody to shore up that as well as appeal to the PUMAs.

I really have no idea what happened...but I do know it is not an optimal choice.

Power Line

Sarah Palin speaks

Here are the first excerpts of Governor Palin's speech that have been released in advance of its delivery tonight. This should be good; we may be on the verge of some kind of catharsis:

On her experience as a public servant:

"I had the privilege of living most of my life in a small town. I was just your average hockey mom, and signed up for the PTA because I wanted to make my kids’ public education better. When I ran for city council, I didn’t need focus groups and voter profiles because I knew those voters, and knew their families, too. Before I became governor of the great state of Alaska, I was mayor of my hometown. And since our opponents in this presidential election seem to look down on that experience, let me explain to them what the job involves. I guess a small-town mayor is sort of like a ‘community organizer,’ except that you have actual responsibilities."

On why she is going to Washington, D.C.:

"I’m not a member of the permanent political establishment. And I’ve learned quickly, these past few days, that if you’re not a member in good standing of the Washington elite, then some in the media consider a candidate unqualified for that reason alone. But here’s a little news flash for all those reporters and commentators: I’m not going to Washington to seek their good opinion - I’m going to Washington to serve the people of this country."

On energy policies that the McCain-Palin administration will implement:

"Our opponents say, again and again, that drilling will not solve all of America’s energy problems - as if we all didn’t know that already. But the fact that drilling won’t solve every problem is no excuse to do nothing at all. Starting in January, in a McCain-Palin administration, we’re going to lay more pipelines...build more nuclear plants...create jobs with clean coal...and move forward on solar, wind, geothermal, and other alternative sources. We need American energy resources, brought to you by American ingenuity, and produced by American workers."

On John McCain:

"Here’s how I look at the choice Americans face in this election. In politics, there are some candidates who use change to promote their careers. And then there are those, like John McCain, who use their careers to promote change."

Leo

I see she took SoundBites 101.



Seriously, those statements are fine, as are those of all of the candidates involved. We aren't going to glean anything from carefully prepared speeches. I can't wait for an interactive debate or open question interview. Then we'll be better able to judge if there is potential here that makes up for a glaring lack of achievement.

With regard to that last statement, I am of course talking about Sarah.

"We aren't going to glean anything from carefully prepared speeches"

Depends on one's ability to read, among other things. For example, to a certain degree I don't know what to expect from John McCain, him being the proverbial maverick and stuff. But I do know what to expect from Barack Obama. None of it good.

From the Big Lizards blog:

Even George McGovern was not as loopy in 1972 as Barack Obama is today; for one thing, McGovern was a war hero (B-24 bomber pilot in WWII), and a true, if misguided, patriot; if a preacher had said "God damn America" in McGovern's presence, he would have hauled his family out of that church and never set foot in it again. I don't recall McGovern ever trying to justify the 9/11 attacks by pointing to America's own putative perfidies.

Peggy Noonan, in today's Wall Street Journal:

Because she jumbles up so many cultural categories, because she is a feminist not in the Yale Gender Studies sense but the How Do I Reload This Thang way, because she is a woman who in style, history, moxie and femininity is exactly like a normal American feminist and not an Abstract Theory feminist; because she wears makeup and heels and eats mooseburgers and is Alaska Tough, as Time magazine put it; because she is conservative, and pro-2nd Amendment and pro-life; and because conservatives can smell this sort of thing -- who is really one of them and who is not -- and will fight to the death for one of their beleaguered own; because of all of this she is a real and present danger to the American left, and to the Obama candidacy.

She could become a transformative political presence.

So they are going to have to kill her, and kill her quick.

And it's going to be brutal. It's already getting there.

Newt Gingrich on Sarah Palin

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8zXi90E ... re=related

And of course, we should all trust the words of the Family Values hero of the last republican revolution.

Home run baby!!!!

Does anyone know why Keith Olbermann has a pissed look on his face? Is Obama spunk giving him a nasty taste in his mouth?

Leonid wrote:"We aren't going to glean anything from carefully prepared speeches"

Depends on one's ability to read, among other things. For example, to a certain degree I don't know what to expect from John McCain, him being the proverbial maverick and stuff. But I do know what to expect from Barack Obama. None of it good.

Right Leo, the same Obama who is constantly accused of not offering anything substantive with regards to concrete policy. Yet, poof! We can now divine the bad things he most definitely will bring upon this nation, simply by applying some reading comprehension. Nobody can really state concretely how he will bring about The Fall of America, but he will, won't he?

Man, I sure wish people were this sage when Bush ran in 2000 and 2004.



Kidding aside, Sarah Palin seems like a decent lady with a decent family. I even feel bad for her agreeing to be the lightning rod for her party, something Republicans chiefs clearly wanted. However, American Presidents and Vice Presidents have to be something beyond merely being decent people. In fact, George Bush is a decent man, but that hardly makes him an effective or even competent leader.

Lately I like to recall and reminisce about the Republican Party of Ronald Reagan. I remember in particular how his administration collaborated with Pope John Paul II and the Vatican to help unhinge communism. There were leaders of talent and diplomacy who were able to put this together. Sorry Leo, but this is not the same party and the current leaders are not of the same caliber. The art of diplomacy and alliances evidently do not matter when one is so confident in his own monolithic ability, right?

This Republican party is not the one I used to support. Tonight's convention only reinforced that.

Olbermann@LOL

"This Republican party is not the one I used to support."

And this Democratic Party isn't the party of Harry Truman, Jack and Bobby Kennedy and Patrick Moynihan. Not that your statement is untrue.

WOW !

Just spent the last 2 hours or so watching the convention.

Huckabee's speech was nice. He's such a good talker and that story about the school desks was brilliant. I would have loved it if he won the ticket.

Rudy Giuliani was next. He isn't a GREAT speaker, kind annoying at times, but him talking about Obama's (lack of) senate accomplishments and flip-flopping is what was most important.

But Sarah Palin definitely kicked ass. Yeah I know everybody has speech writers but she presented herself good. She can definitely hang with these guys. Between her and Giuliani they really tore a sizeable chunk off of Obama. They really went to town on some of Obama's past remarks. I thought that biblical reference was hysterical.

I have a feeling though that in the Presidential Debates, Obama is going to destroy McCain. 72 yo is too old, IMO.

some of the buttons and signs were bloody funny -- "Hoosiers for the Hot Girl", LMAO !!!

VPILF

what say you, palo ?

Leonid wrote:Peggy Noonan, in today's Wall Street Journal:

Because she jumbles up so many cultural categories, because she is a feminist not in the Yale Gender Studies sense but the How Do I Reload This Thang way, because she is a woman who in style, history, moxie and femininity is exactly like a normal American feminist and not an Abstract Theory feminist; because she wears makeup and heels and eats mooseburgers and is Alaska Tough, as Time magazine put it; because she is conservative, and pro-2nd Amendment and pro-life; and because conservatives can smell this sort of thing -- who is really one of them and who is not -- and will fight to the death for one of their beleaguered own; because of all of this she is a real and present danger to the American left, and to the Obama candidacy.

She could become a transformative political presence.

So they are going to have to kill her, and kill her quick.

And it's going to be brutal. It's already getting there.

Leo, Peggy said some more:

http://www.newsday.com/news/local/polit ... 9707.story

former Reagan speechwriter Peggy Noonan and former McCain strategist Mike Murphy -- were caught trashing vice-presidential pick Sarah Palin Wednesday when they kept talking after they thought the audio was off during an interview on NBC, and a YouTube version of their off-off-message exchange rocketed around the Internet at light speed.

Noonan, who had praised Palin in a Wall Street Journal column in the morning, said, "It's over," and added, "Most qualified? No. I think they went for this, excuse me, political bull ---- about narratives ... Every time Republicans do this, because that's not where they live, and that's not what they're good at, they blow it."


I am seeing this all over the internet, so it appears authentic, but you never know. If it is true, like I said, the Reaganites were different!

Leonid wrote:"This Republican party is not the one I used to support."

And this Democratic Party isn't the party of Harry Truman, Jack and Bobby Kennedy and Patrick Moynihan. Not that your statement is untrue.

Lesser of the evils. At least I got something out of all that Catholic theology.

Pabs

...some of the buttons and signs were bloody funny -- "Hoosiers for the Hot Girl", LMAO !!!

VPILF

Ciccolina would be a shoe in for president. Her foreign relations experience is vast. She once offered to make love to Saddam Hussein in exchange for him rolling back his offensive in Kuwait back in the 90s.

And, she's still not too old. She probably still could make wild love to the Putins and Chavezes of this world.

Just keep raising the bar because this gal is going to make it over the hurdle each time. She will be a great running mate and will help her candidate. Maybe Obama can carry Biden. Maybe not. But Biden bring nothing for Obama.

As for the debates, that is Obama's weakness in his game. Write him a speech, he does well. Make him think on his feet, no good at all. I wonder if he ever tried a case. Would not be good at it.

mate, what's up with you about mentioning Ciccolina twice now in the last few days ? Downloading some of her porn now that the preggo wife ain't giving you any ?

And I've noticed that you've been saying the word "sage" a lot the little while as well. That's so annoying.

This is from The Huffington Post ( although I detest Arianna ). It was a conversation allegedly caught on a mike involving Peggy Noonn, Mike Murphy, and Chuck Todd.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/0 ... 23647.html

PN: It's over.

MM: Still McCain can give a version of the Lieberman speech to do himself some good.

CT: I also think the Palin pick is insulting to Kay Bailey Hutchinson, too.

PN: Saw Kay this morning.

CT: Yeah, she's never looked comfortable about this --

MM: They're all bummed out.

CT: Yeah, I mean is she really the most qualified woman they could have turned to?

PN: The most qualified? No! I think they went for this -- excuse me-- political bullshit about narratives --

CT: Yeah they went to a narrative.

MM: I totally agree.

PN: Every time the Republicans do that, because that's not where they live and it's not what they're good at, they blow it.

MM: You know what's really the worst thing about it? The greatness of McCain is no cynicism, and this is cynical.

CT: This is cynical, and as you called it, gimmicky.

MM: Yeah.

Falc

I agree that the debates are crucial. We'll see.

Kay Bailey Hutchinson - Come on now. She was on this morning. She looks like a sad grandmother. She looks like she hardly has any energy to get up in the morning. How would she energize the base. McCain picked Palin for a reason and it is working.

Mate

Reaganites were different? So were Democrats. What do Barack and Joe have in common with the working class people?

Are John Kerry and Nancy Pelosi working class?:)

You're preaching to the choir.

The lesser evil concept is fine with me, that's why I voted for George Bush twice. Have no regrets, considering the alternatives, but of course not his numerous failures.

Now could Joe Biden have pulled this off and blow a kiss to the POW from Lancaster, Ohio who was in the Hanoi Hilton with John McCain?

Leo & Falc

Honestly, what do you guys make of the Peggy Noonan comment? Hell, at least this election is entertaining!