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Feeding tubes .......
Abortion ........
Death Penalty .........
War ..........

All hotly contested issues, in the media and the political arena.

The hottest these days is the use of life support with the Teri Schiavo case in Florida. Some argue that by taking away her feeding tube, she is being killed. But could not an argument be made that she would have died already if not for the artificial means of keeping her alive? It has been 15 years in which she he has been in a vegetative state. Doctors say that her brain will never recover. A minority think that there may be a miracle. A miracle is what is needed. So what should be done?

I think the most difficult thing for a parent is to see a child die. And I know how difficult it must be in this case. But in some sense, is it not selfish to want her to stay alive. As a Catholic, I feel that her soul should be allowed to rest in peace and go to heaven. Let her live a better life. She has no life now. Sure, she breathes, she digests food through a tube but is that truly life? Someone has to care for her. Am I being too cold. It is not a life that I would want to live. There really is no right or wrong answer, is there? Yet, the politicians are trying to make this one. And that is the worse thing about this whole episode.

Falc,

It's rather sad that politicians are using this issue to pursue their agenda. Calling legislators back to DC for one vote. That's ridiculous. Meanwhile a teenager goes on a rampage but this issue keeps getting all the head lines.

I'm with you, let nature (GOD) take it's course.

One good thing to come out of this is more people will consider a living will.

Pace e bene.

At about 3:00, Jesus shouted out Psalm 22:1 in Aramaic--Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? "My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?"

The courts have established that Teri Schiavo's wish is to die. So far so good. What I find hard to accept is that she must be starved to death. The humane thing to do would be to give her a lethal injection.

Starving people to death, vegetated state or not, is barbaric.

Boye B wrote:The courts have established that Teri Schiavo's wish is to die. So far so good. What I find hard to accept is that she must be starved to death. The humane thing to do would be to give her a lethal injection.

Starving people to death, vegetated state or not, is barbaric.

Boye - That would cause even more problems. Allowing her to starve to death, that is no longer inject food into her digestive system, allows her to die naturally as she does not have the capability to intake food. By giving her a lethal injection, then someone is actually taking action to kill her. May sound like semantics to you but it is a big thing around here. Her life has been extended so long via artificial means. Putting her to death by artificial means is not an answer either.

Speaking of humane, doctors claim that the nerve function that would put her in pain by not eating does not work. So she is not necessarily suffering.

May sound like semantics to you but it is a big thing around here.

No, it's precisely because it's not semantics that I object to the treatment given to her. My argument is that lethal injection is more humane than starving her to death.

Speaking of humane, doctors claim that the nerve function that would put her in pain by not eating does not work. So she is not necessarily suffering.

Maybe she is not suffering. But that is not good enough. If she is going to die anyway, and there is a way to ease her suffering if she does feel pain, then why not allow her to go without the pain of starving to death?

Hey Boye. I am watching MSNBC and they are talking about this case. I had an interesting Easter Dinner conversation with my parents and sister's in-laws about this issue. Compared to mine and the view of my sister and brother-in-law, opposite. The parents think she should be kept alive. We of the next generation do not want to be in that state. My sister said do not put the tube to begin with. I have heard of some arguing that we should not play God by pulling the tube. On the other hand, is it not playing God by prolonging her life by inserting a tube. If God wanted us to be fed by tubes, would we not have holes in our stomach. I know, playing the devil's advocate but there is no right or wrong answer in this.

I know you feel that giving her a lethal injection seems more humane but it is a direct act of killing her. That opens a new can of worms with euthenasia. As for easing any suffering, they can always give her morphine.

"If God wanted us to be fed by tubes, would we not have holes in our stomach."

Did He want us to have cars, stereos and computers? What kind of bullshit thinking is that, Falc? And who are YOU to know what HE wants?

Other than that, how would you know that Terri wouldn't get better one day?

Most importantly, I understand people who were passionately trying to preserve her life.

Now, tell me - what is to be gained by her death? Never mind politics, judges, Republicans and Democrats...

What exactly is to be gained??? Who will gain, her husband who's living with another woman? Who else?

Leo - My point is that she has been kept alive all these years artificially. Yes, it is good to have medical advancement that allows us to prolong our lives. But for how long? At what point do we say that it is not going to get better. Is living in a vegetative state forever actually living? What exactly are people trying to preserve? I would not want to be in such a situation. Let her soul rest in peace. Let it go to heaven where it belongs. I think having her lie in a vegetative state is a form of suffering. I do not know if she will get better. There is nothing to indicate that she will and the medical experts state that she is brain dead. Again, what life does she have?

As I watch Hardball, Rev. Mahoney, who is a Schindler family supporter, states that there should be positive proof that an individual does not want to be artificially kept alive. So if Terri Schiavo had a written document expressing her wishes, then he would be OK with having the tube removed? Seems inconsistent to me. Some who are passionate about keeping her alive are actually fighting about who should make the decision.

Leonid wrote:"If God wanted us to be fed by tubes, would we not have holes in our stomach."

Did He want us to have cars, stereos and computers? What kind of bullshit thinking is that, Falc? And who are YOU to know what HE wants?

If a tray of food and a pitcher of water was brought to her room each day, then could an argument be made that she is not being starved to death? She is kept alive only because a feeding tube was inserted into her digestive system. If the technology was not available, then she would have died long ago.

If technology wasn't available we'd be probably living 40 years on average, so?

That's not the point. I asked you - what's to be gained by Terri's death?

Falc

"At what point do we say that it is not going to get better."

We who? What right do WE have to say anything, as far as her life is concerned?

"Is living in a vegetative state forever actually living?"

Let's become Nazis then - they knew precisely who should have lived and who shouldn't have.

"Let it go to heaven where it belongs."

That's not for you to decide.

"I think having her lie in a vegetative state is a form of suffering."

No one knows for sure she's suffering.

Falc:

Well, I guess it's up for each to decide if they want to live in a PVS. I saw a programme on CNN about the issue, and they talked about how this case highlights the importance of getting in writing what you want to happen to you if you should become mentally incapacitated and end up being kept artificially alive. They called it living will or something.

That way, you can clearly indicate your intentions if you should fall in an irreversible coma or in a permanent vegetative state. That would ensure that you're allowed to die if that's your wish and that you're allowed to stay on for as long as possible if that's your wish. And it will make life a hell of a lot easier for your relatives.

As for lethal injection, yes that does open up the can of worms that is euthanasia. However, I for one am rather in support of that. Even wide awake, ,entally sane people with irreversible deadly diseases should have the option to end their life rather than prolongue a life of pain. Yes, morphin can ease the pain, but what kind of life is that anyway?

As for easing any suffering, they can always give her morphine.

Well, okay, I can agree with that. It's only a matter of dosage.

Leo:

what's to be gained by Terri's death?

Terri was granted what the courts had established was her wish. Terri's death was her gain.

Boye

Those judges "established" nothing, they merely dictated their opinion.

I don't know the details of the proceedings. What I know is that through a long legal battle before many different judges it was established that Terri Schiavo would rather die than live in a PVS. When that was finally established, the removal of the tube was a result of that verdict.

Boye

Again - they established nothing. Instead they condemned her to death. As simple as that. For no one, repeat - NO ONE - knows that Terri wishes to die.

Leo

How do you know that her husband didn't know what Terri would have wanted?

Leonid wrote:"If God wanted us to be fed by tubes, would we not have holes in our stomach."

Did He want us to have cars, stereos and computers? What kind of bullshit thinking is that, Falc? And who are YOU to know what HE wants?

Other than that, how would you know that Terri wouldn't get better one day?

Most importantly, I understand people who were passionately trying to preserve her life.

Now, tell me - what is to be gained by her death? Never mind politics, judges, Republicans and Democrats...

What exactly is to be gained??? Who will gain, her husband who's living with another woman? Who else?

According to the doctors, and the American Association of Neurology, a person in PVS (Persistent Vegitative State) will never recover.

Michael Schiavo's brother said it quite eloquently: "You just can not grow a brain". Briefly digressing, obviously, it does not stop certain people from ruling this country. But I digress.

IN Schiavo's case, Terri's cerebral cortex is "gone". I would like to have it explained to me how she was going to improve without it. Regeneration of cerebral cortex is not something we see every day. In fact, we are yet to see such miracle.

Now, many say "Look, this scumbag (Michael Schiavo) is living with another woman!" So? Is he not supposed to have some semblance of life? Or should he lay next to his wife? As court agrees, Michael has shown to be a great husband, expanding every effort for the betterment of Terri Schiavo's medical plight. She has not experienced a bed sore in 15 years of being in this state. She has been wheeled all over the country in various attempts to provide her with treatment. And it wasn't her parents who were doing that, it was her husband. Who, by the way, according to the Schindlers, was "a perfect husband" in 1993.... But, obviously, not in 2005...

Leonid wrote:Boye

Again - they established nothing. Instead they condemned her to death. As simple as that. For no one, repeat - NO ONE - knows that Terri wishes to die.

Ou Contraire, if anybody, husband would have a better idea what she has wanted.

My wife knows what I would like in such state. My parents, as liberal as they are, I am sure, would fight against her should this need arise. Which is why I do not blame the Schindlers. I totally agree with Falc on the fact that certain politicians and activists are exploring this situation to their personal and political gain. I hope that turns around and bites them in the ass.

What's to be gained from Terri's death?

Compassion for her and her family.

A discussion of a painful decision that can befall any of us and thus perhaps avoid a similar situation (i.e., through a living will or durable power of attorney).

A focus on the meaning and value of life (say for men on death row who weren't given as much attention and help as Terri has or soldiers fighting and dieing in an unjust war).

Votes for parasitic politicians, who wanted the federal courts to engage in judicial activism to settle the issue in their favor; in essence making her a schiavo (slave) to their political agendas.

An appreciation for the separation of powers

The irony is beyond escape when George Bush as governor, gave doctors--not the family--the ultimate authority to decide whether to keep someone going.

God Bless Terri Schiavo's soul and all those who share her fate.

He's estranged husband. No one's calling him a "scumbag" for that reason, but it defies credulity that such a man would care about Terri more than her parents do.

Husbands (and wives) come and not too infrequently they go, but your parents are here for the duration of your and their lives.

So, why their wish should be less important than his?

Bineaz

Compassion? Nazi doctors sincerely believed their line of work was compassionate too.

You know about slippery slope, don't you?

I don't have any problems with people in that situation dying if that is their express wish to do so. I know I'd probably rather not be kept alive, but everyone is different.

However, she's not really in a position to confirm or deny this, so surely she should be given the benefit of the doubt that she does want to live? I don't think we should start assuming people in that state wish to die.

Her husband has no business deciding, as they are no longer together, and like Leonid says, how can anyone here say what's best for someone they've never met? Nothing really is to be gained from her death, but it's inevitable now anyway.

Thomas Sowell

A reader wrote that Terri Schiavo's biggest mistake was that she did not kill anyone. If she were a murderer, she would not be allowed to be killed the way she is. Many of those who want her to die would be demanding that she live and many of those who want her to live would be demanding that she die.

lol very true. Pretty funny in a twisted, perverted kinda way.

Leo, If Nazi doctors showed compassion, then I'm a clown in Swan Lake. Please read on:

The dancing clowns of death

By Charlie Madigan

Tribune senior correspondent

CHICAGO -- I have avoided, until now, writing anything about Terri Schiavo and her awful predicament because my hope was that a merciful, timely event would come along and take her life, just like that. Her husband and family would linger over the issue for a while, then go away.

The politicians would also go back to Washington to "deal" with Social Security, the collapsing Medicare and Medicaid systems, the war, whatever. Anything to take my focus, your focus, all focus, off of that hospice in Florida.

That hasn't happened yet, but it is pretty clear that the many interventions and attempts at intervention are now over. What we have is a body, a woman, starving to death and suffering dehydration, a terrible irony for a person whose condition was most likely brought on by a potassium crisis caused by an eating disorder.

In conversations with my friends, I have heard some claim there is a death wish at the heart of every serious eating disorder. Doesn't Terri Schiavo's case make you wonder and wonder about that? Maybe if she had gotten some good help 20 years ago, this might have been prevented.

What have we learned?
I know what I think.

For one thing, we have learned that politicians handle questions of morality about as well as floppy-shoed clowns handle ballet.

I know that I am not the only one who wonders why this woman's life is any more valuable than the lives of hundreds, perhaps thousands, of people who are dying on exactly the same terms because no one has the money to continue exhaustive, end of life, medical treatment.

If House Majority Leader Tom DeLay, who said Schiavo was a "gift" from God to show the world how screwed up America had become, really has that commitment to life, shouldn't the House be drafting and passing legislation to cover the costs of long-term care for the disabled and elderly?

As a matter of fact, if it's OK for the federal government to jump up to its ears into this mess, then I guess the feds should be involved in a whole range of personal life issues, from health care for everyone (Whoopee, they finally saw the light) to whatever you can think of that you might need some help with. What a great development!

Transplants. Those should be free, too, because they are life extending. And all kinds of drug abuse treatment for people whose lives are threatened by addiction, that should be free, too because these lives are precious and who wants to see those people die? Full psychiatric treatment for young girls who must binge and purge, that would be worthwhile, too. There are so many things we could do if we were genuinely committed to life.

Oh, yes, let's not forget the pope.

Suddenly, Americans on the political right agree with the pope, who concluded that Schiavo's feeding tube should stay in place. We've gone Catholic! Wahoo for the pope! Bring on the macaroni and fish sticks! Now, what about the war? The pope says that is wrong too. Capital punishment. He's against that, too. Also, too much money in the hands of too few people in America. He opposes that, too.

Somehow, I don't anticipate much change in the Republican majority on any of these counts.

Why? I'm not convinced they really care about any of it, beyond what it can do for them politically. I'm not convinced the Democrats care either. They are just too cowardly these days to step up to the plate and argue that none of this is the public's business. Gutless losers. The voters made them losers, the gutless part they have created themselves.

I think poor Terri Schiavo was, first and last, a prop for a whole collection of interests who needed to revive their fortunes and test their strength.

I think she has been used by conservative politicians to bow to the religious right to show thanks for its support last November. Politically, it's much cheaper to make a present of the Schiavo case than it is to take on the big issues on the religious agenda that are so dangerous, abortion among them.

Now the entire Republican hierarchy gets to trot itself out and thump its chest and proclaim that it was on the proper side in the Schiavo matter. They knew the courts were going to handle this one all along. It was the perfect distraction for all of them, high publicity, risk-free advocacy, like wrapping yourself in the flag and proclaiming your allegiance to various flavors of homemade American pies.

Religious and political interest groups got to play along, too. I suspect the official right to lifers made quite a few bucks on the hype surrounding the Schiavo case. I suspect the direct mail efforts from that side, and from the left, too, will start arriving within a week or so. Those folks are already selling the contributors lists. The libs will claim the Constitution is under fire and won't we all send along what we can to protect it.

And you already know what the other side will say.

Unhappily, this is not going to go away.

Terri Schiavo will die, foundations will be established in her name and issues that medicine and neurology thought it had resolved quite some time ago will be revived.

People in dire circumstances will pray that Tom DeLay and President Bush and Fox news and CNN and everyone else will intervene in their cases so that beloved kin, instead of abiding in the darkness of a persistent vegetative state, will somehow be made perfect in retrospect, canonized before their deaths and memorialized worldwide on television.

Grazie Bineaz. Good article.

What I find amazing is that some who are arguing that Terri Schiavo should continue with a feeding tube also acknowledge that it would be proper to remove it if she had a living will and a directive for medical care. So are they truly for life? Or are they for parental rights? And what if the roles were reversed, husband wants to keep the tube, parents want it out? There is so much phony bullshit behind this issue from people who have no business being involved. May Terri rest in peace.

Yeah, it's all about Republicans...those fascists...Yawn to that "democratic" agitprop.

Jay Nordlinger

Also on Monday, I quoted the wheelchair-bound Eleanor Smith (who was quoted by Reuters, which was quoted by the Wall Street Journal). She's a self-described liberal, lesbian, and agnostic — and yet she says, "At this point I would rather have a right-wing Christian decide my fate than an ACLU member."

I think I can imagine this woman: Grew up revering Roger Baldwin and the Civil Liberties Union, thought of it as the great protector of rights, most shiningly life. She must be terribly disillusioned. To be better off with Jerry Falwell than with the ACLU!

As I mentioned on Monday, Rep. Loretta Sanchez, next to me on a television panel, sneered, "I thought conservatives believed in the sanctity of marriage." Yup, that's Michael Schiavo for you: upholder of the sanctity of marriage.


Mrs. Schiavo has parents willing to feed her and watch over her. No one else need lift a finger. Terri Schiavo's continued existence is no skin off anyone else's nose. No one need bestir himself; no one has to visit; everyone can just go on doin' his thing: drinkin', buyin' Lotto tickets, chasing the neighbor's daughter — whatever. People can go on studying Shakespeare or exploring Patagonia. Terri's parents ask for nothing except that their daughter not be starved to death.

Leo,

That would be a simple enough solution, but why then has the husband pursued this. Perhaps he has a strong conviction that's what she would have wanted. It's not for the insurance policy.

That or he belongs with the compassionate Nazis.

Or maybe we have too many judges who think they're true unelected rulers of this country.

Oh by the way, you didn't get the Nazi comparison...They really truly believed they're doing the right thing. You know...Germans, sentimental folks...

And you know what else? They really truly loved their Fuehrer. Yes they did - a great majority of them. But speaking of them now is another matter.

You cannot have it both ways, either you're with your wife till death do you apart or you get another woman, but not both.

OK thanks for the sobering clarification.

As for the judges, they did the "right" thing in this case; they applied the existing law to the record before them.

It was Congress that was hoping the appellate justices would use judical activism to overturn what were sound decisions. They did not. Bravo.

Anyway, this is one of those issues that just cannot reasonabaly be settled by either side giving a little. It really is life or death.

Though you have to admit with Jesse Jackson joining the parents cause, there must be something wrong.

Anyway, hope you've been enjoying the weather -- be sure to park the Lexus in the garage tonight as hail is expected.

Hail means spring, Jesse Jackson means...OK, I wouldn't go there:)

LOL @ Jesse and his no longer fat son.

Some people would probably stay away from the website having such an appetizing name as RightWingNews:)

However, it presents some interesting information, wich I personally didn't know before. I'm guessing most people didn't either. Whether it would change your opinion or not, is of course entirely up to you.

http://www.rightwingnews.com/archives/w ... PHP#003655

(scroll down a little, to Answering Some Frequently Asked Questions About The Terri Schiavo Case)

Leo - Heard some of it before. There is so much mud slinging going on back and forth and from third parties that at this point, I have no idea who to believe. I feel sorry for Terri. Either let her live in this state or die anonomously. The media circus that this has become has gone too far.

Falc

I just read it - certainly an information like that often falls into the "he said, she said" category.

The bad thing about America is that too many stories like that become a part of the media circus.

The good thing about America, providing one tree doesn't obscure a forest for you, is that we're truly a great civic society and we do care about many important things in life.

Let's hope we focus on the good

Leo - One thing that I hope many see, especially the politicians, is that each case is different. It will be a big mistake if legislators create laws in reaction to this one case. The big problem here is that the husband and the parents cannot agree. In most cases, the families try to work it out for what is best. The debates on talk-TV and talk-radio has been interesting. Should we create rules for feeding tubes, once in, can't be pulled? That would be a mistake as there are situations where there is a chance for recovery and once it is determined that there is none or very little, then the tube can be pulled out. Another debate is whether a written document is necessary to deny life saving means. Again, what if the family members are in agreement. Bad laws come from bad situations. I just hope the lawmakers do not go there.

Leo

The good thing about America, providing one tree doesn't obscure a forest for you, is that we're truly a great civic society and we do care about many important things in life.

Despite the prevalence of Ugly Americanism in this world, I too believe that.

Leonid

"Estranged husband" or not. It is obvious, that he cares about Terri and has taken considerable pain to provide her with every possible chance to improve, be it medical or therapeutic.

Parents definitely do not care less than the husband, and this was not what I was trying to say.

What I am trying to say is that in most cases of adult married people parents are not necessarily in a position to know just what it is their grown - up children believe or want.