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Correct. So you finally understand my and Leo's point about your original question?

Eugene wrote:Would you honestly believe any study, which puts China at the top of Market Economy appraisal?

Actually, no, because, as any comparison of apples and oranges, this survey does not provide an independently verifiable definition of what the correspondents believe "free enterprise" is.

So, the question is, what do Chinese people actually appraise?

this survey does not provide an independently verifiable definition of what the correspondents believe "free enterprise" is.

No it doesn't. Nor did anyone understand it did. So what?

BTW, the fact that China finished slightly ahead of the US in that survey was not the most striking thing about that survey at all. Not even anything that I thought would trigger a debate, actually.

Clearly the most stunning result of that survey is the one of France (this is why I posted this in this thread, obviously). And the French understanding of "Free Market Economy" is probably very similar to the one of Italy, Germany, or Britain, who all have relatively similar results in that survey.

Felix K wrote: And the French understanding of "Free Market Economy" is probably very similar to the one of Italy, Germany, or Britain, who all have relatively similar results in that survey.

I don't know that. Neither do you.

All three countries being members of the same free trade zone (Italy and Germany even having the same currency as France), the assumption doesn't exactly seem far-fetched.

But, China, with their communist leadership and very repressive political system, is a far different case.

Perhaps not quite as far as you suspect, but still no argument here.

i I believe that French economical model is far closer to free enterprise than Chinese. At least no party bosses are meddling in it in France.


I'm not sure I agree with you on that Eugene,

the french (and italy to some extent) have had quite the protectionistic view to "their" own enterprises. It's a huge burden on the EU's budget that the french winemakers should continue to recieve subsidies because "their families has always produced wine". Foreign investors are welcome to China, they must abide to the same rules as chinese entrepeneurs though, sort of like Bill Gates and MS must obey EUs competition laws. Just because some nations within EU belong to the same monetary regime it doesn't make them completely interchangable. And that is some problems that the EU must adress (wherfore I think it's pure idiocy to call for referendums on matters concerning the EU. We elect our national leaders and by that it should be in our own interest to find out their stance in matters concerning EU policy).

The nations within EU are not on equal footing in a whole plethora of matters, for instance Sweden who has commenced great land reforms (just as one socio economic transformation commenced) already in the 40s and 50s for the sake of agricultural efficiency are now paying a lot (net payee) to countries who can compete with cheap labour and low corporate taxes but does not call much upon their own citizens for sacrifies to have a raised social standard they desire. Why should Sweden , where citizens have voted for a relative high social standard financed by a high level of taxation pay for nations with lower social standards so that these nations can compete out investment capital from Sweden. And remarkably the nations with the lower general social standards tends to be rather paternalistic with abortion prohibition. Why should we subsidize their low tax rates?


There is a lot that needs to be adressed as regards taxation (the only really harmonized is the turnovertax system but that does not block what is labeled as harmful competition), social benefits and regulations of workforce (why should polish workers in other countries be allowed to follow polish workregulations if the acts on social benefits state that it is the working country which decides which benefits you're entitled to?)

Alan Johnson has a point in what he recently said:

http://news.ft.com/cms/s/4e811fde-c270- ... e2340.html

Otherwise I see the whole project dismantle to something looking like an expensive project evolving to, in harsh words, more or less an anarchy where people and enterprises shops for rights without liabilities.

And france is always demonstrating, I think they have among the most days of strike among the workforce in the whole world. If youth unemployment is low then I don't see what the problem is to ease up employment regulations for them. They've done something similar in Denmark and it has worked out pretty well as far as I've heard.

When Nicolas Sarkozy will be in power, he should take care of our army of slackers and do some crucial changes

tronche wrote:When Nicolas Sarkozy will be in power, he should take care of our army of slackers and do some crucial changes

I like your style Tronche. I do.



This Sarkozy character however does seem like he will shake up things in France...especially with regards to a culture of entitlement and expectations. Let's see.

Lemme get this straight...One man is supposed to change the whole country?. Does it mean that Jewish-Hungarian blood of one man is much stronger than that of millions of Paristinians?:)

LOL

<shrugs shoulders> I don't think G. Persson even commented on the asbetos lawsuits hitting ABB in the same manner as Dubya feel comment upon Microsoft's competition squabble with EU (and I'd presume that ol' Billsy can afford better lawyers than Dubya

True, the youth unemployment is pretty decent in France, a paltry 23%. Hardly an issue people storm Bastille for.

Forza casseurs!:)

Well I read that the swedish social democrat youth chairman is there (in Paris) to participate in demonstrations against CPE and she's already got an assault case pending against her for drunken rioting in Sweden. But I'll say not much about it, social democrats behaving like morons lately and I've seen the right bent block working up their numbers in ratings...sits fine with me.

with Sarko, most of the casseurs will be send back to their country of origins...finally, les casseurs will be an endangered species

Lol, you're too cute sometimes tronche

Lemme get this straight...

well, perhaps the only thing you can get straight is your boyfriend

No wonder Brits always thought that froggies lack a sense of humor:)

Yeah.....I caould also say that while engaging with some mailbuddy some years ago when I still was at university and then went to work after finished I eventually once replied to someone with my officemail with perhaps maybe a less decent joke. Eventually I suspect it was like serving a mid size can of zyklon-B to the person on the other end. But I still like the jewish sense of humour. Joseph Heller is among my favourite writers as well.

But I still like the jewish sense of humour.

Did anybody see that Jerry Seinfeld episode where his Catholic dentist friend converts to Judaism?

When Nicolas Sarkozy will be in power, he should take care of our army of slackers and do some crucial changes

with Sarko, most of the casseurs will be send back to their country of origins...finally, les casseurs will be an endangered species

T'es sarcastique ou t'as vraiment vire a droite??

How flattering a special thread about France.
Really you shouldn't have....

Ali


Bien sur que je déconne en disant cela, histoire de titiller ce narco pro-bush qui était censer tomber dans le pège, cependant il est temps que tous nos "politiciens" qui nous dirigent soient virés, comdamnés et jeté en prison.
Je crains le pire aux prochaines éléctions, si tu voyait les scores actuel de jean-marie...c'est gravissime surtout ds les campagnes.....
finalement je vois mal qui pourra rectifier le tir pour éviter le pire( putain c'est pas mal dit )

@++

Ah d'accord! Je m'inquietais pour toi.
C'est vrai que ca a l'air d'etre le bordel en France. Surtout que les Francais veulent que ca change mais proteste tout changement. Cette histoire de CPE avait l'air d'etre une bonne idee.

je suis tout a fait d'accord avec toi, le CPE était une bonne solution, le pire c'est que l'on a pas intterogé les 5 millions de chomeurs sur ce sujet car il est clair que la moitié de ces chomeurs sont pret a bosser avec les conditions du cpe
enfin c'est comme ça, c'est la france
au fait il fait 38/40 degres à Paris............la folie totale !!!

@++ car j'ai grave soif

ps : tu te souviens du Kabyle que l'on connaissais à SF, Akli ?
c'est devenu une star à Paris et produit par Manu Tchao !!!

Ali

Je me retiens de repondre à cette petite ordure de rital de merde (pabs),car je suis assez chanceux (depuis quelques jours) de sauter ds tous les sens une belle italienne de Napoli
en tout cas j'aimerais bien l'avoir sous la mains ce petit nabot de spaghetti

bon allez, à la revoyure

ca va péter dimanche soir à Paris.....si Sarko est président....

le futur 1er ministre si Ségo est elue dimanche...DSK

Allez, une dernière pour la route...LOL

Allez une toute petite dernière....