World Forums

Now that you bring that up, I have heard arguments here about not getting our best athletes playing the real football. Someone even mentioned about what if Allen Iverson played soccer. I am not so sure he would make a great player. As far as athleticism goes, the US was not lacking in that area. Ask the Italians. In fact, one of the problems in youth soccer is that coaches look for the best athletes and ignore the kids that can play the game. Some of this shit starts as young as U8 with coaches looking at birth dates as part of their selection process. The cut off date used here is 1 August. For instance, my boys will be U14 next fall. I can only take kids born 1 August 92 and later. So what some coaches do at the very young age is select kids born in August, September and October as they will likely be more mature than their classmates (bigger, stronger, faster). This way, they can create a super team and be selected for division 1 as U11's. So as the selection process goes, the best athletes get picked. Watch a college soccer match and you will see it all too apparent.

Anyway, do you think the US was lacking in athleticism? Financially, soccer can't compete with US sports unless the kid makes it to Europe. And even so, it will be some time for a US player to be considered among the elite to make the better wages in Europe. But this is a big country and there are plenty of athletes around. I don't think that is a problem.

In that case maybe it's just that you're crap.

No argument from me. I kept saying that the US would not advance. What happened four years ago was good luck. Portugal took us lightly. Korea helped us by beating Portugal. Then we had Mexico, an opponent we know well who we can beat when not playing at the Azteca. So the quarterfinal finish was due to good fortune, not because we became a world power. And I said that Donovan would be a non-factor. First, he would not surprise teams as he did four years ago. Second, his decision to leave Bayer Leverkeusen and not play in the Bundesliga hurt him. Playing here in the MLS is too easy. It is not a challenge. And there is no need for him to train hard because he is guaranteed to start. In Germany, he would have had to work his butt off to make the first 11. But it would have made him a better player. He was a flop in this WC.

I have no idea why the US is not better at football. Like in every sport I suppose the US just needs that one person who makes it big. Perhaps in Europe. That one talented person who can inspire the rest of the team. And maybe the kids as well. Sort of a US version of Rooney or C. Ronaldo. JMHO

Falc, that about Iverson goes without saying. I've heard people telling me for years that "Oh if the likes of Michael Jordan played soccer, we'd rule the world".

I've always disputed that, because when on earth do you use your feet in basketball? Some of those near 7 foot tall players would look ridiculous on a football field. The skills needed are completely different, and I have no idea why people continue to make such an illogical argument.

The only position a basketball player could conceivably play in football is goalkeeper.

So can we assume Peter Crouch would be better at Netball with bouncing than he is at football?

I doubt it, he's a bit on the slim side for that.

Falc - You're in a better position than I to judge, perhaps the whole 2010 plan was a little too much.

Falc

the same is done in hockey here in Canada. GM's of junior teams go one step further. They look at the size of the kids parents to see potentially how big the kid will get.

no wonder Canada have done squat at the last Olympics and this years World Championships

I wouldn't care what Crouch does, but he certainly doesn't belong in the football World Cup. My argument about basketball players still stands - I didn't say that it works in reverse (tall rubbish football players being good at b-ball)

Oh, 2010. It was all American. Set a goal. Market that goal. Get fools to believe it. Look, I am 43. Hopefully, I will be able to see the WC in 2046. US still won't be close to winning it. I don't sense that there will be any significant changes on the youth side in the near future. I know the president of DC United, which is probably the professional team in the US (notice the term team). I suggested to him that United should start a youth program and play in the local league year round. I told him that the beauty of putting together a youth program is that it would pay for itself, that parents would pay for the trainers and coaching. The team would benefit in that it would develop its own coaching pool. The response I got back was that he would hate for United to develop a player that would be allocated to New York (MLS is sort of a socialist organization, where the leagues own the player contracts and determine how players are allocated). Usual short sightness of football in this country.

Some new youth associations have come up the last few years. Everyone is in it for the money. Parents are starting to pay coaches $6,000-10,000 per season (fall and spring) who have no clue what they are doing. But they coach at the local colleges or are assistant coaches. Our selection process that creates the national pools is called ODP (Olympic Development Program). If you make the team, you have to pay for it. Each state association (some of the bigger states are split into two) has an ODP. Another scam for coaches to make money. Some youth clubs are creating soccer academies. Might be in the right direction but is another money making machine. That is a big problem, to advance in this country, your parents need money. If they don't have it, it is difficult to make it through.

There are a lot of problems. And competing against the other sports for money, especially TV money, does not help.

So why not start one that's not connected to any team?

A stand alone league where the players work their way through each age group.

And ask the MLS directly to finance it as non-profit.

I think the USA would benefit from hiring a foreign coach with international experience.

Hiddink is available

Nah. He's going to coach Russia once the WC is over.

Question for those of you outside of the US:

How are your youth programs set?

Here, everything is at a local level although some regional play is beginning and we do run a national cup. Problem is that a deal was struck many years ago that made the national championship run from U13 to U19. So all of our teams are broken by single age groups and teams get formed at young ages and run up to U19, as long as the team sticks together. There are players that hop from team to team, looking for that greener pitch (a lot of times parent driven). I suggested to the former USSF president that we should get rid of the single age groups after U12 and instead go with U14, U16 and U19, where instead of playing on a team, kids graduate from one program to another. This way, there is less of an ownership issue with coaches (for instance, a talented player will not be encouraged to play on an older team because it will make his current team weaker). So the focus is on winning and not development.

The other big thing that is happening here is this love for small sided play. Claim is that is what Europe (or maybe the Dutch) do. For me, small sided play is for training purposes. But the kids need to learn how to use space and see the field. I am in the minority on this one (another reason why I will not see USA win the WC in my lifetime).

So how is it done elsewhere? How are players developed? How are age groups broken down?

Quattro,

I know in Holland every team has a youth division. Weather the team is in the premier division(ere divisie) or lower.

The talented kids are attracted to these teams.

Something like that should be set up here at least at MLS level. Maybe attach a scholarship or something to make it attractive.

that happens in every contry that wears shoes, dumbass.

Surnami (and it is me, Falc), do you know if the Dutch keep their players at small side up to their teens? Small side being 7v7 or 8v8, not using a full pitch. There seems to be the impression here that the Dutch do it this way.

he he he

good question.

Im pretty sure it's full side. with maybe a smaller pitch.

One of the things that is learnt early is tactical discipline.

Hey,

Don't make me call border patrol

don't make me call the fashio police about your shoe problem.

Spike Lee a soccer fan, who knew....but he supports Arsenal; predicts wants Brazil-Germany final.

http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com/06/en/060628/1/8dob.html

surnami wrote:I think the USA would benefit from hiring a foreign coach with international experience.

Hiddink is available

Beenhakker is available. T&TFA don't want to foot the bill for the team any more. To besides he deserves a nice cushy job like coaching in the US. Besides the shopping in the US is great, or so I hear.

The Dutch wants Marco Van Basten to stay on as coach, and Hiddink misses Australia already.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/060628/2/zl2m.html

Shopping in Baden-Baden is better, or so English WAGs say:)

RE: Spike Lee

about a year or two ago he was presented a Internazionale kit when he was in Milan. Even wrote a short note on Inter's site, if I recall.

Spike Lee is actually a big fan and friend of Thierry Henry

LOOK (those stuck at work)

Got this from a friend:

"Somebody found a back-end into the Espn site. Link to watch the WC live today on your PC. To watch the afternoon match, change "cup1" to "cup2".

http://espnevent1.espn.com.edgesuite.ne ... s_cup1.asx

Thank you - thank you!!!!

Thanks Bineaz but I scheduled myself to go in at 11:30 and have 13 channels of coverage ata home. :-)

So I see you don't use the subject line anymore

I do

See, I still do.

VIP Section

So it became an european matter after all.....I hope Portugal get some honorable reward with content of going to Hollywood for a spot in some c-movie.

Who's that bloke sitting next to Jaeger? He looks like a 40-year-old Rooney!!!!

Move your lips from Jagger's ass and maybe you can pose the question directly for yourself.

EUGENE
Explain to me about the "Death March" legend surrounding Dynamo Kiev. Just saw a special on it. According the the piece, The Death March was a myth instead they were put in a concentration camp and then ignored or vilified after the war. WHat is the truth?

Buzzz wrote:EUGENE
Explain to me about the "Death March" legend surrounding Dynamo Kiev. Just saw a special on it. According the the piece, The Death March was a myth instead they were put in a concentration camp and then ignored or vilified after the war. WHat is the truth?

Death Match, not Death March.

Yes, it was a legendary tale but not all of it is a legend.

According to the sources I can make available to you, a large group of Dynamo Kyiv and Lokomotiv Kyiv players were caught by World War II in occupied Kyiv. They all found employment in a large baking plant.

Germans found out that a whole bunch of Soviet footballers failed to evacuate and decided to match them against German athletes. So the footballers were told to start a team. Most of them were from Dynamo, with an exception of three Lokomotiv players. After forming the team they played about 8 matches against various Ukrainian, Hungarian and german teams, winning every one of them, most in a route.

After that, Germans brought one of their top teams, Flakelf, made up of Luftwaffe pilots. Kyiv population were forced to watch the two matches they played and the refereeing was decidedly pro-German. The details you saw in the special had to do with one of these two matches. In any case, Dynamo prevailed in both. Soon after, the entire roster were put into a concentration camp. After some troubles at the camp, every third prisoner were shot by the Germans. Four of Dynamo players were unlucky to be the third

lillie wrote:Move your lips from Jagger's ass and maybe you can pose the question directly for yourself.

What the hell are you talking about?