World Forums

by **Falc** on 09 Dec 2005, 23:46

Looks like the Czech coach is on our method here. Did you call him Campi?

World Cup: U.S., Italy, Czechs in tough group
Associated Press

LEIPZIG, Germany (AP) - The World Cup draw was kind to defending champion Brazil and host Germany. It really hurt Argentina.

Five-time champion Brazil also faces Australia and Japan in Group F, while Argentina has games against Serbia and Montenegro and the Ivory Coast. Argentina failed to get past the first round in 2002 and this draw means it could struggle again.

Elsewhere, Italy's first game will be against newcomer Ghana before meeting the United States and the Czech Republic in a tough group. The Italians, Czechs and Americans also were in the same group in 1990, with Italy and then-Czechoslovakia reaching the second round.

"We will have our hands full. We know they are all going to be difficult games," United States coach Bruce Arena said. "Italy is always nice because of my heritage."

Czech Republic coach Karel Bruckner put pressure on Italy's Marcello Lippi by saying the Italians were strong candidates to win the title for the fourth time.

"Please write down, 'Italy is the favorite,"' Bruckner said.

Lippi was content with the draw and is already looking ahead to the next round.

"I'm not disappointed with the draw. At this stage all opponents are strong," Lippi said. "Two of the teams drawn with Italy (United States and Czech Republic) have a higher FIFA ranking but we don't feel inferior.

"If we win the group we avoid Brazil."

Five-time champion Brazil will play its first match against 1998 semifinalist Croatia, followed by games against Australia and Japan.

"It's a group many will consider technically easy, but it won't be like that," Brazil coach Carlos Alberto Parreira said. "We will need to be very alert.

"We will probably play Italy or the Czech Republic after advancing from the first round. They are very good teams, we would have to work hard to get past them, without a doubt."

Germany, which has won the title three times, plays the opening game against Costa Rica before taking on neighbor Poland and Ecuador.

While it sounds like easy rides for the Brazilians and Germans, Argentina has another tough job getting to the knockout phase after having been knocked out in the first round in 2002.

The Argentines drew the Netherlands as well as Serbia-Montenegro and a talented Ivory Coast team which may well mark its debut with some upset victories.

Argentina coach Jose Pekerman was unable to attend the draw but his assistant, Hugo Tocalli, said his players were not afraid.

"No, we are not. We have a lot of confidence, we have no fear," Tocalli said. "On the other hand we have faith."

Netherlands coach Marco van Basten said it was a colorful group.

"They're all countries with a rich history and technically skilled players," Van Basten said. "We're going to make sure that we're well motivated from the start. If you start out with a tough one you immediately know what you are worth."

The Dutch open against the Serbs.

"We just have to realize it will be no easy job," Van Basten said.

Ivory Coast coach Henri Michel is looking forward to the challenge.

"It's an extremely difficult group. It's also good for us," said Michel, who has Chelsea's Didier Drogba and Arsenal's Kolo Toure in his lineup.

"We will see good soccer. Argentina, Serbia-Montenegro and the Dutch all play great soccer. I think it's the toughest group. Argentina is always there and Holland is playing great right now so we will have to prove it on the pitch."

France, the 1998 champion, must start against one of the teams it faced in qualifying, Switzerland. South Korea, a semifinalist in 2002, and newcomer Togo are also in the group.

The draw began with the eight top-seeded teams - Brazil, Germany, Argentina, England, France, Italy, Mexico and Spain - put into their groups. The rest followed in a complicated pattern with the teams separated geographically as well as on their merit.

England faces Sweden for the second straight World Cup, and will also play debutant Trinidad and Tobago and Paraguay, a team it beat at the championship in 1986.

"It's not an easy group, but it could have been worse, much worse," England coach Sven-Goran Eriksson said. "I asked to avoid the Netherlands and we did that and I asked to avoid Australia and we did that as well."

Dennis Lawrence, whose goal in a playoff against Bahrain put Trinidad into the World Cup, was delighted to be facing England, where he plays for League Two's Wrexham.

"I can imagine how the fans are feeling because I am so excited about it myself," Lawrence said. "It was brilliant looking at our name come out in the same group as England. We are involved in a group with some really good countries."

Another debutant, Ukraine, which has AC Milan's Andriy Shevchenko leading its attack, starts against Spain and then meets Tunisia and Saudi Arabia in a comparatively easy group.

Mexico, which was seeded, has to play a talented Portugal along with Iran and Angola in another seemingly easy group.

"The meeting with Angola will be a very special moment. It'll be a great festival because our countries are related," Portugal forward Luis Boa Morte said.

But the last time Portugal and Angola met in a friendly match in Lisbon four years ago, four Angolan players were sent off for brutal tackles and dissent and the game was abandoned with 20 minutes to play.

The game was supposed to be a celebration of the long-standing cultural ties between the European country and its former African colony.

"It was a very favorable draw for Portugal," Boa Morte said. "We have a great team and we have a great chance of attaining our objective, which is to advance from the group phase."

Croatia placed third on its World Cup debut in 1998, and coach Zlatko Kranjcar was confident his team would get through to the knockout phase despite having to face Brazil.

"I don't think there should be any room for discontent. It's a fair group, a good group," Kranjcar said. "There are stronger groups for sure. We definitely have a good chance to get into the next round. The matches against Australia and Japan will decide our fate."

by **'Uaglio** on 09 Dec 2005, 23:57

Hmmmmm.....

How funny is it that the hosts Germany get that Kindergarten group. Cakewalk for them.

Italia better come out ready to play....not so much because they can't advance. I think they clearly can and should (USA is overrated and the Czechs aren't the same as Euro 2004). But, IF they stumble and finish 2nd in their group...and Brazil wins theirs...guess what?? It's Italy v. Brazil in the Round of 16. I think we can take Brazil but I'd rather avoid that so early in the tournament and I'm sure Brazil would as well.

by **Buzzz** on 10 Dec 2005, 00:50

There is a list of star strikers but funny thing Ronaldinho in not one of them. I feel he should be on that list instead of Ronaldo.

by **mate** on 10 Dec 2005, 02:53

Croatia received a good a draw as we almost could hope for. Sure, we have to face Brazil but I suspect we could get a draw in our opening game and then we wouldn't have to face them again for a while, assuming we both advance far.

At any rate, Croatia most definitely should beat Australia and Japan if we are really as good as we think we are. Australia does not have great WC experience, especially this generation, and I still am dubious regarding their ability to field 11 real quality footballers. They did not at all look good at the Confederations Cup and were seriously outclassed in a 2 - 0 defeat to Tunisia.

Japan will play as good as a team of their pedigree can, but they just lack the physical presence overall and any offensive firepower to get the better of Croatia. We also beat Japan in the 1998 WC. I have to think that a team that can beat Sweden twice during WC qualifying and win their group outright can defeat Japan and Australia. If we cannot, fine, then we simply don't deserve to go on.

All in all, it could be much worse. You should hear what my Serbian friends are saying.

:wink:

By the way, if Niko Kranjcar emerges as a midfielder, Croatia indeed could put together a decent run. He would be the orchestrating offensive midfielder that we currently lack, a complement to a hard working mostly defensive team that has decent firepower up front.

If we do advance, we unfortunately will most likely face Italia, who I think will win their Group of Death. More on that later.

:wink:

by **pramzan** on 10 Dec 2005, 03:00

mate - Croatia got a good draw, period. They will go thru easily.

by **mate** on 10 Dec 2005, 03:06

Group E

This might be the hardest of them all. To be sure, all 4 teams are capable of advancing, although obviously some are more likely to do so than others.

That being said, Italia for me remains the world cup favorite and should win this group outright. I cannot see Ghana getting a result, as Italia always seems to do well with African opposition. Italia just has too much class for a determined and dogged US team. Italia definitely will put steel to a Czech team that flatters to deceive, as the latter are aging and only lesser in terms of already suspect mental toughness.

Italia cannot, as usual, get off to a slow start. They need a result against Ghana early on, which I think they wull get. I really believe Italia will be more offensive minded this WC and play to potential.

If I have to bet, I would bet that the US will finish second. Why? I think we have reached a point in our football development where we have enough skill and talent to complement tactical discipline and good old American self-belief and fighting spirit. On their day, Donovan, Beasley, and McBride are armament enough. I have a feeling that we will shock the Czechs the way we did Portugal in the last WC.

Ghana has to be respected because they are probably the best team out of Africa and have a superb midfield composed of players playing at good European clubs. They long have had talent but never played to potential and will fight to do Africa proud. They are defensively tough but have enough flair up front to potentially get results against the US and the Czechs.

The Czechs? Like I said, I'll believe it when I see it. Nedved still isn't sure about playing and they simply looked awful in qualifying against Holland and Romania. They typically play better against superior opposition, being smart, fast, and technically adept. But like I keep saying, I don't rate at all their fighting spirit and mental toughness. They have a collection of decent individuals, but no warrior to rally them when the going gets tough.

The Czech Republic has an awesome game against Holland in Euro 2004, doing well overall, but ultimately were outfought by the Greeks. They are on a decline since that peak. Hence, I call the following for now:

1. Italia.
2. USA.
3. Ghana.
4. Czech Republic.

Again...I stress that all 4 are formidable teams. It will be tough for all concerned.

by **mate** on 10 Dec 2005, 03:08

pramzan wrote:mate - Croatia got a good draw, period. They will go thru easily.

Yes, we got a good draw...period.

Yes, we will go through...but I wouldn't use the term easily.

:wink:

by **pramzan** on 10 Dec 2005, 03:08

As for the rest, the Azzurri are in a difficult group. The only one more difficult is group C. As for group C, I am not convinced that both Argentina and Holland will go thru.

I can't believe how easy Germany's group is but that's the way it usually is with host nations. Group D looks interesting with Portugal and Mexico. Spain's group H is not as easy at it appears. Saudi Arabia WILL get waxed but that's it. France also has a pretty easy group.

For the Azzurri, they are in a group with three other teams that will bring the game to them. It will be interesting to see how Lippi approaches them.

by **pramzan** on 10 Dec 2005, 03:11

Oh, England's group is also easy but I am wondering how they will perform against Paraguay.

by **mate** on 10 Dec 2005, 03:19

Group C

This is for me the second strongest group and not at all easy to call.

Argentina should come through with 1st place, although I question their willpower over the whole WC campaign. Surely they will be better prepared mentally and physically than in 2002, bringing in loads of offensive firepower: Messi, Riquelme, Tevez, etc.

Holland too has awesome talent but is even more suspect than Argentina in terms of mental toughness. Nevertheless, just like Argentina, they should have enough with which to get out of this round.

Ivory Coast has some quality attackers, especially Drogba, but they have lost some big games, including a defeat at home to Cameroon during qualifying. It took Egypt to rescue The Elephants with a tie against Cameroon in the last game. Nevertheless, they looked good recently against Italy and show typical West African potential...being fast, physically powerful, but short on experience.

Serbia has top class skill and talent and has looked excellent defensively, giving up I think a single goal during qualifying. Indeed, I think they are even better than what they have show so far. Nevertheless, they have shown a penchant for badly self-destructing in critical games. That's right, we have yet another team with some issues regarding mental toughness...or swagger factor, if you will. But, if they can get a bit of offense going, they are capable of advancing.

Here's how I would call it right now:

1. Argentina.
2. Holland.
3. Serbia.
4. Ivory Coast.

Mind you, all 4 are capable of advancing...even if my gut tells me this is Argentina's primer for further ambitions.

by **mate** on 10 Dec 2005, 03:26

Group A

I am beyond being pissed off at Germany's fortune, as clearly the World Cup gods keep bequeathing them good fortune. Last WC they got an easy path to the final, where poor officiating...which characterized that WC...got them over the US in the quarters. They then proceed to get a free pass to this WC as host, where as the Brazilian champions of WC 2002 had to actually qualify.

Anyways, Germany would have to really try hard to screw this one up. Poland is hardly a strong European team, albeit they will be playing in Europe. Equador will be on a foreign continent and at sea level. Costa Rica just isn't what it was 4 years ago.

My call is as follows:

1. Germany.
2. Poland.
3. Costa Rica.
4. Equador.

By the way: watch out if Germany should face Brazil, Italia, or Argentina down the line. Of course, the football gods might clear a path...yet again.

by **mate** on 10 Dec 2005, 03:38

Group B

England! England! England!

I still hear the chants made by my English compatriots. Every time the world cup rolls around, I am treated to brave declarations about how this time England really does have a chance to win it all. Well, I'm now old enough to sip my tea calmly in the face of such eternal optimism. At least I am not so dense as to withstand successive hammer blows of cold hard reality...aka...England WC failures.

:wink:

Relax. England should win this group, although I don't think it will be so easy. Sweden seems to match up and do well against England, although the Lions in reality are that much more talented. Still this is England and Sweden's group to throw, something a tough Paraguay team will be looking to exploit.

Exploitation of mistakes is what Paraguay needs, as they certaintly don't have heavy offensive firepower and actually rely on defense and occasional counterattacks. But, seeing how generous England can be at times when they shouldn't...think Northern Ireland during qualifying...Paraguay has some hope.

Of course, T&T will provide rest and recreation...and, I believe, lots of pot...for all these 3.

:lol:

I call it this way:

1. England.
2. Sweden.
3. Paraguay.
4. T&T.

Mind you, I think England will ultimately heroically lose in the later rounds when they meet a strong team. Like I said before, SGE doesn't seem to believe in his team, not allowing them to finish off an opponent. He seems not willing to put Beckham in his place, despite David repeatedly showing he can't get it done at this level in critical moments.

Of course, England has their big game player Michael Owen...ok, I'm just messing with Markino on this one.

:lol:

Mark, I hope you don't take offense to what I posted about England. I am a fan. I really am. Yet, I have waited a long time for England to fulfill the hype and win a WC. I'm just a little jaded and have been let down too often in the past. If they do manage a strong showing, I will be the first to give congratulations.

Deep down, I have a soft spot for England. Let's hope I'm off with my pessimism regarding their chances post 1st round.

by **mate** on 10 Dec 2005, 03:47

Group G

Dude, I guess France is becoming the new Germany as far as the football gods are concerned. But even judging by this group alone, you know these fooballing gods MUST be crazy and smoking Pab's pot on occasion!!!

Are you fucking kidding me? Switzerland might be just about the weakest European team, although they have some emerging young players. Togo is probably the weakest Africa side and I hear they are offering big JUJU to the footballing gods for their fortune! South Korea? We'll see how they fare in Fortress Europe against a traditional European power.

:wink:

The French are ecstatic. You want to know how ecstatic? Imagine being forced in a time warp into the French Army on the eve of WWII. However, instead of facing the Wermacht, you get to fight Ethiopia and Switzerland. That's right, stop peeing in your pants as you'll be safe and back in Paris after all. Yes Virginia, France might actually win and not have to appease and surrender!

:wink:

1. France.
2. South Korea...despite my ribbing, I think this team is tough and talented enough to pull it off. They will run MILES to make it.
3. Switzerland.
4. Togo.

by **mate** on 10 Dec 2005, 03:58

Group D

This group is yet more evidence that the football gods had a crack party! One decent team was slated to face 3 suspect squads. Now I know these things must be random!

Mexico scored success with its tier 1 seeding, getting opponents it definitely is capable of defeating. Contrary to what people think, Mexico travels well and is formidable opposition: physically enduring and fighting, skilled enough, able to play with almost anybody...certainly any team in this group.

Portugal for me is yet another team that flatters to deceive. They couldn't even beat the Greeks...gee, I wonder what those malakas are doing for the WC...in the Euro final on their own soil. Yes, they have some skill but are as mentally tough as jackrabbits facing a hunting dog.

Iran is Iran, a team with lots of optimistic fans who tend to speak about the hypothetical rather than the practical. I just don't see them doing much damage, especially seeing as they might fire the Croatian coach who got them to the finals. It's some nonsense about not playing to potential in friendlies, of not winning in style...you know, Iran is like Brazil in this regard, saddled with the weight of impossible expectations.

Angola is a wild card and perhaps tougher than people might expect. They beat longtime African power Nigeria to qualify, having a strong defense and solid sense of unity. You never know, but they just could pull a result against their former Portuguese colonial masters. It will be an emotionally charged game.

1. Mexico.
2. Portugal.
3. Angola...might upset Portgal and achieve a shock 2nd place...or so I hope! :wink:

4. Iran...it's that simple...Ken.

by **mate** on 10 Dec 2005, 04:09

Group H

Spain is yet another beneficiary of fortune, getting away with a comparatively light group. I still think they could actually blow this group and will for sure get eliminated if they do advance. Sorry, I saw enough of Spain in qualifying to know that they have serious offensive deficiencies...not to mention confidence and commitment issues. By all rights, they should have lost against Bosnia during qualification, but I'll let that one go. 2002 was Spain's best chance, but they were let down by poor officiating...and not by conspiracy, but let's not rehash all that.

:wink:

For me, Tunisia is a bit of a sleeper and my upset special. They are African Champions and actually played very well at the Confederations Cup. They have a tough defense, are quite skilled, and only need to get over their inferiority complex against European teams to play to potential. Surely this will come in handy against Spain...who laid an egg when confronted by Nigeria in 1998, ultimately going out of the 1st round.

Once again...Spain best beware their opposition.

:wink:

Despite Schevchenko being a top player, I just don't think the Ukraine has what it takes to advance. Maybe Eugene can shed some light on this, but I don't see them getting the offensive production required.

Saudi Arabia? I guess somebody did let the dogs out. Nuff said.

Conventionl wisdom says:

1. Spain.
2. Ukraine.
3. Tunisia.
4. Saudi Arabia.

I say a combination of Tunisian doggedness, Islamic conspiracy, and Spanish ineptitude might produce the following:

1. Tunisia.
2. Spain.
3. Ukraine.
4. Saudi Arabia.

by **mate** on 10 Dec 2005, 04:11

By the Way:

Obviously, I feel free to change my mind and claim no allegiance to all the I just wrote.

:wink:

by **pramzan** on 10 Dec 2005, 04:11

mate - Big game player doesn't mean that he can do it alone.

Owen is not Maradona nor Garincha. I never claimed that he was.

At any rate, there are others who believe he is a gamer who comes mentally prepared, to raise his game to another level when the chips are down. That's all I have ever meant about Michael Owen.

If you read more into it than what I posted, well you are mistaken or maybe my zealousness for making my point led me to be ambiguous.

The only question mark with this group is Paraguay. I'm just not sure how England will do against them as they seem to not perform well against South American teams.

by **mate** on 10 Dec 2005, 04:16

Markino

At any rate, there are others who believe he is a gamer who comes mentally prepared, to raise his game to another level when the chips are down. That's all I have ever meant about Michael Owen.

My hope is that he indeed does come prepared to raise his game to another level, because at some point the chips will be down for England.

As for Paraguay, I think England will have that one locked up. It can get interesting if they give up a dumb early goal, but I doubt we'll see something akin to the Northern Ireland game during qualifying...when England attacked relentlessly, exposing themselves to a killer counter-attack to lose the game.

Besides, I still have vivid memories of England killing Paraguay 3 - 1 in 1986. For some reason, that impacts my thinking on this game. I guess Paraguay for me doesn't have enough of South America with which to peturb England...certainly not as much as Brazil or Argentina, both of whom have lots of South America.

:wink:

by **mate** on 10 Dec 2005, 05:38

United States...Football Invasion of Europe 2006

The beauty of the American mentality is that we not only say we can win it all, but we actually believe we can. We're not

:wink:

I can't wait for the US to start the campaign. I really believe we will shock a few teams along the way. Let me break down some of the general strengths of Team USA:

1. 50% of players are European based:

2. 50% of players are MLS based:

3. Bruce Arena: a measured and astute coach who knows how to bring the best out of his team.

4. Second to None Physical Prowess: read up on how Klinsmann uses American training techniques for Uber-Germany.

5. An Underrated Corps of Players:

by **Leonid** on 10 Dec 2005, 05:59

I'm not so sure Garrincha would be interested in the "big game" concept. He treated the whole business as a game, not a mortal struggle, the large part of him was just a kid enjoying faints, nutmegs and dribbling the ball past the whole team, keeper including. Never mind that he was quite capable of destroying opposition in the process, in the big games too.

Anyway:

Tunisia
Ukraine...

The rest don't count, do they?

by **dezzi** on 10 Dec 2005, 06:33

Pramzan

Glad you see Italy's group as difficult. It is. Especially difficult for Italy is the order in which their games will be played. Imo, it's all about getting 3 points from Ghana. It's all uphill from there.

I also see England's game with Paraguay as paramount for England to advance.

Yeah Group C is a realltoss-up. I picked the Serbs because I think they'll play the least defensively/afraid-to-lose and score more goals. That group goes to goal differential methinks. It's quite fathomable that ARG and Holland go home early.

Mate

The USA wil indeed be competitive and hungry, but their work is cut out for them. I doubt, at the moment, that they'll make it. Having said that, they are certainly a side that will be difficult for all 3 teams in the group by sheer physicality alone. We're a STRONG physical team and seasoned to international intensity. We're not newcomers. We have played big games before. Arena is the longest active coach with his national team at the World Cup. We have much to reckon with and I'd bet the bank that we're on the list of teams that NO team wants to face.

We need something out of Game 1 from which we can build some mojo on to face Italy. If we lose Game 1 (probable) it's over. The USA will get only results through hard work and, more importantly for them, momentum. They must do both. Work hard. Gain momentum. I'll tell ya what. 2 points from 2 games while heading into Game 3 with Ghana is about the best we can ask for. That's realistic. And that's a good draw for us. I'd bet the farm Italy or Czech Rep. would kill to face Ghana for their final game. But it's all about the Czech game.

by **Felix K** on 10 Dec 2005, 06:55

The USA could have a home advantage of sorts in their match vs Italy. There are 40,000 Americans living in the area around Kaiserslautern, that could translate into crowd support. Not that I expect USA to win this game, but a draw is certainly not completely unrealistic.

Campeones wrote:Felix, are you from Kaiserslautern?

Not downtown K-Town, but less than a half-hour to drive there. (Although during the World Cup it will probably be more like two hours...)

As for the allocation of tickets, look at what Falc already said. I must admit that I forgot about the contingents for the guest FAs. Could be that theyhave some tickets to offer, and I do not know how they handle the allocation.

by **Falc** on 10 Dec 2005, 09:12

The US will not surprise anyone this time, like it did in 2002. No one will take US lightly, as Portugal did last time. Remember that US was one of the worst sides in 1998, so Portugal did not take them seriously. Also, remember that the team was 1-1-1 and were trashed by Poland in its last group match. Then they had the luck of getting Mexico, an opponent they knew well in the round of 16. So a lot of things fell into place for the US. I don't think it will be the same this time. The others will have respect for the US and play hard, including Italy as Lippi will make sure of that. What is interesting is to hear comments from the US about Italy being a declining team, that it is not as good as it once was (no one is taking Mate serious about this). That works in Italy's favor. Success for the US will depend upon how healthy Claudia Reyna will be. By far the best US player and when he is in midfield, he runs the show. I think Beasley will be a player to watch as his experience at PSV has benefitted him. I expect Donovan to be less of a factor than in 2002. It was a mistake for him to return to MLS. A gifted and talented player but he needed to play in the Bundesliga to take himself to the next level, as Beasley has done. He will be marked tightly and will find that international defenders to be much better than MLS defenders. The US will fight for the second spot but so too will the others. If the team goes into Germany too cocky, it will be a short stay.

by **pramzan** on 10 Dec 2005, 09:15

Leo - I made the reference to Garincha because, before Maradona at Mexico86 there was Garincha at Chile62. There will not be an Owen at Germany06.

by **pramzan** on 10 Dec 2005, 09:21

dezzi - I was watching the presentation last night with my wife on SKY Sports and when I started to realize that the USA had a good chance to end up in group E, I got very nervous. My wife was happy after the USA was selected because she can't wait for all our friends and customers to get me riled up for Italy-USA.

I said to her, "you don't get it." With the USA in this group, Italy has the second toughest group. They may not make it to the next round.

I kept repeating last night after the draw: "oh shit."

The Azzurri will probably make it to the next round but it won't be easy. THEY MUST get 3 points in the opening match and then they must stay focused in their preparation for their second match against the USA.

by **Felix K** on 10 Dec 2005, 09:28

What is interesting is to hear comments from the US about Italy being a declining team, that it is not as good as it once was

Well, I definitely do hope the US team doesn't listen to those comments too carefully, or else they will run into the trap of over-motivation caused by way too high expectations. In this case, a very heavy defeat against Italy would be possible, or perhaps even likely.

However, I think they do know that they are an underdog, 2002 quarter final appearance or not. Second round would be a great achievement for them, and they know that. All they need to do is to avoid any hotels where they could receive CNN...

by **dezzi** on 10 Dec 2005, 15:21

"Italy in decline" is a valid argument, however not as it pertains to the USA's outlook.

Falc

No way the USA shows up in Germany 'cocky'. It will not happen.

Felix

The USA advancing out of that group would be MONUMENTAL. We surely can't expect much more than that.

by **mate** on 10 Dec 2005, 15:35

Falc

What is interesting is to hear comments from the US about Italy being a declining team, that it is not as good as it once was (no one is taking Mate serious about this).

I challenge you to cite anything I wrote that even remotely alludes to Italy being a declining team. Maybe you confused what I wrote about the Czechs, whom I consider a declining team that peaked in the 2004 Euro Cup?

Do you realize that Italia is my favorite to win the whole World Cup?

Dezzi & Pramzan

Sure, Italia has a tough group. But let's face it, Italia is the clear favorite, although all the teams in their group are indeed strong enough to cause upsets and move on.

Dezzi hit it spot on regarding American strengths. But, let me reinforce two more cornerstones of Team USA: willpower and more skill than ever before. Like I said earlier, Americans just don't get so intimidated and rattled. These guys walk into matches believing they can win and actually have the skill with which to do it. Most of us grew up in the US and can attest to how competitive and cocky the best American atheletes can be.

I think this will play a huge factor against a team like the Czechs. In fact...call me crazy...but this is akin to the US vs Czech in hockey. The latter have a lot of explosiveness, skill, and finesse but we know who has the grit. Plus, the skill level in football is narrowed greatly when comparing the US to anybody else. We know how we bombed in 1998, but that was a different team with an inferior coach as well.

I say again: Italia is the one team that can carve the US apart. Against them we need to be careful, laying back and countering. Hell, look at Italia's midfield and contrast it with ours. A tie would be a good result for US against Italy.

And you know that Ghana and Czech will take the initiative against us, seeing us as potentially their weakest opponent...which plays into our strengths as well. I can't wait for Baros and Nedved ( if he plays ) to go up against the likes of Onyewu and Albright, both of whom are powerful, pit-bull defenders.

by **....** on 10 Dec 2005, 15:49

No offence taken, Mate, I think you summed up England's chances pretty well. It's almost a given that England will qualify from their group and lose to a strong opponent later down the line because that's almost exactly what happens every time.

Pramzan, we only have a bad record against Brazil from South America, and Uruguay when they were still a force. Paraguay are weaker than Argentina were in 2002, and probably no better than Colombia in 98 or themselves in 86. But they could get a result against us. We'll see.

Disagree about the Serbs playing least defensively in the group of death, Dezzi. Indeed, it is their superb defensive record that got them to the WC so convincingly in the first place, conceding only 1 goal in 10 games. They scored 16, which is decent, but Holland scored 27, so I absolutely see Holland as being the more offensive of the two, and we all know Argentina are an attack-minded team.

I believe Serbia will therefore play to their strengths and play tightly against those two teams, possibly utilising the counter-attack to steal a narrow win.

by **mate** on 10 Dec 2005, 16:27

Mark

I believe Serbia will therefore play to their strengths and play tightly against those two teams, possibly utilising the counter-attack to steal a narrow win.

This is exactly how I think they will play, as it has carried them this far. However, I think they will have to commit more men to counters and more often if they want to get good results against Argentina and Holland. Serbia is a calculating and cunning team that will exploit openings and punish mistakes...something I think will bode well against Ivory Coast.

What I doubt about Serbia is their grit, which I rate as less than that of both Holland and Argentina. Obviously, Ivory Coast is an unknown, although I see them as rather lucky to be here...Cameroon lost their qualifying group more than Ivory Coast won it.

I guess for me the difference is that Argentina and Holland have proven attackers as well as midfield and defense. Serbia's attack remains suspect, despite what they will tell you about 6 foot 7 inch Zigic and co. Ivory Coast has an offense but the defense has often failed.

I still say Argentina and Holland, although it is not impossible for Ivory Coast or Serbia to go through.

by **Always** on 10 Dec 2005, 16:28

Paragtuay will frustrate England unless England can get an earlyish goal.

They're very well organized and a potential stumbling block no matter what anybody says.

The game against Sweden is almost sure to be a draw, so much so it's almost not worth playing it.

T&T should give us 3 points but then Paraguay and Sweden are almost sure to get the same three points from them. Just have to hope one of the other two drop points against the groups small team.

Italy/USA etc - I repeat, there is no way on earth the USA are coming out of that group.

They start against the C.R. and then play Italy. With no points from the first two games they'll get a win against Ghana while Italy and the C.R. play out a draw to qualify both of them.

Sorry guys, I know most here live there and want the US to do well but it ain't gonna happen.

by **mate** on 10 Dec 2005, 16:36

there is no way on earth the USA are coming out of that group.

There was no way on earth a man was going to land on the moon. But yet, Americans found a way and...to quote Reagan who used the term in an altogether different context...broke beyond the surely bounds of this earth.

I can picture Landan Donovan scoring and saying: one small hatrick for me, one great qualifying leap for the USA.

:lol:

by **Always** on 10 Dec 2005, 16:45

There was no way on earth a man was going to land on the moon. But yet, Americans found a way and...to quote Reagan who used the term in an altogether different context...broke beyond the surely bounds of this earth.

They were in a race against one nation, with less money.

And of course this is exactly the same thing Mate.

by **mate** on 10 Dec 2005, 16:55

Ali

You of little faith will learn that American willpower and know-how are up to the task. Sam's Army should provide some inspiration, as our last home game in QC qualifying against Mexico actually seemed like a home game.

Americans are demanding the moon...err, the cup.

:wink:

Seriously, this is a seasoned and confident US team. Fine Italia might be stronger, but we can evenly play with Ghana and the Czech Republic. We stand a very good chance of coming out of that group.

I don't know why you would rate Paraguay so highly against England while dismissing the US. For me the US is a worse opponent to face, stubborn and dogged as Paraguay is.

by **dezzi** on 10 Dec 2005, 17:04

Mate

The "traditional" beliefs about USA do not exist any longer. They will not walk into ANY game as a doe in headlights, and they will face every opponent KNOWING they have a chance. That certainly wasn't the USA 12 years ago, and I feel that most of the football world still sees them in that mindframe - Scared and just glad to be there. Tasting success only brings about a further longing for it. That doesn't mean they'll get it - but it surely is a huge leap from what what the world saw them as historically and what they are today. USA are nobody's doormats.

"Americans just don't get so intimidated and rattled. These guys walk into matches believing they can win and actually have the skill with which to do it."

Yeah, it's a new day for the USA. And the cockiness that you speak of is truly American and of course can ONLY help us as a perrenial underdog. Of course we'll fight with the best of them - and we may very well be the best in that department.

Mark

I didn't say S&M had the better offence in the group - I said they'll score more goals because they'll be the team (along with Ivory Coast) that will be playing hardest NOT TO LOSE. Their defense speaks for itself.

by **Always** on 10 Dec 2005, 17:15

Mate - I'd far rather England play Paraguay than the USA, it's a very much easier game.

You've no idea what England losing or, God forbid, being knocked out of the WC by the USA would do to me.

I do understand the advances the US has made and at times if you forget you're watching the USA (and get rid of those tired cliches we non Americans have) then they can look like a very decent team.

I just think Italy and the C.R. are stronger and will show that.

Why the concern about Paraguay? I've seen them play and while not fantastic they're just the sort of team England can trip up against. They play negative, organized and at times dirty football.

Put a team like that against the likes of Rooney and Beckham and the frustration could be a factor. They should win, no dount about it, but it's not a game I look forward to.

Anyone know if cards are carried over to the later stages?

On a plus note this WC seems to have injected life into the boards, maybe time to bring in some new and welcome back some old posters.

by **mate** on 10 Dec 2005, 17:43

Dezzi

They will not walk into ANY game as a doe in headlights, and they will face every opponent KNOWING they have a chance. That certainly wasn't the USA 12 years ago, and I feel that most of the football world still sees them in that mindframe - Scared and just glad to be there.

Exactly!

Can you imagine punk asses like us here on the football pitch facing some uppity Fronchmen or Argentines who thinks we should bow and accept defeat graciously?

:wink:

Ali

You've no idea what England losing or, God forbid, being knocked out of the WC by the USA would do to me.

Kinda like 1950, altough it was before my time.

:wink:

Put a team like that against the likes of Rooney and Beckham and the frustration could be a factor. They should win, no dount about it, but it's not a game I look forward to.

For me the game against Paraguay is simple:

1. England simply cannot make a catastrophic defensive mistake to let them have an early lead. Remember, this has happened before although the spine seems strong this time with a pool of King, Terry, Campbell, and Ferdinand.

2. England has to no make a catastrophic defensive mistake in looking for a good ahead goal if things get bogged down up front.

3. Rooney needs to STFU and simply play in looking for a good ahead goal if things get bogged down up front.

4. And for the love of God, SGE should let his team finish them off if they get a go ahead goal...although Paraguay suddenly shifting to attack isn't the most daunting thing to face.

Suprisingly enough, I don't believe Beckham would be too much of a liablility against Paraguay. It is against stronger teams where he meets his match and either fades or lets loose with some tantrum.

I hate to beat a dead horse, but I just can't see this guy being a midfield anchor, much less the Captain. Ah crap, England should be contesting Italy for this WC but we'll see.

by **Always** on 10 Dec 2005, 17:55

If he plays wide right where he's best he can be very effective.

He can actually play a decent game in the middle but why bother? Gerrard and Lumpoflard do just fine there.

Stop saying "go ahead goal".

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