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mate wrote:Mark

Get your ass back on the General Chat board.

Leo and I have been kicking sand in Eugene's face at the beach. Eugene's now currently taking a Charles Atlas reading comprehension and debating course that he googled up. In no less than 6 weeks, Eugene will come storming the beach, declaring that he is no longer a 97 pound weakling.

He'll be loaded with adjectives, adverbs, synonyms...even some facts.

Not even Mark can get you out of this one. You can shift subjects and provide irrelevant strawmen all you want. You got creamed.

Eugene's Song

Function Islam ( society of Sunnis ) = democracy

Bzzzt! Limit this function to Sunnis, as if Shiias don't exist...and pretend Sunni leaders have no secular authority.

Function Christianity ( any society ) = heirarchal rigidity, compromising the democracy of their host societies.

One can depend on Mate to get everything wrong. Nothing ever changes.

Start by an unprovable assumption that Christianity is more prone to support Democracy (a wrong assumption, giving closeness of Islam and Christianity, history of Christianity and existence of democratic societies that are not and never were Christian), shift to religious leaders influence over secular structures in Islam vs. Christianity and fail to name any for the secular muslim countries, shift to Saudi Arabia - find none there, suggest that Sharia = religious leadership, fail again, call for reinforcements (in this thread), shift to Shiites, etc. Shifting and spinning lead Mate nowhere.

Start by an unprovable assumption that Christianity is more prone to support Democracy...

Nah, Christian culture simply cannot support democracy more than does Islamic culture.

Finally, you're getting somewhere.

Really??? And I wasn't?

Well, Eugene, when it comes to the subject of Christianity vs Islam, I never really know if you are being ironic or not. People who don't know you would probably more often than not mistake your serious statements on that topic for satire.

Because, I am not indoctrinated by Christianity.

I do not hand any religion a favor. To me, any religion is a folly. So, I believe, I ideally qualify for comparing religions as I do not have any shores on my eyes.

Suggesting that Christianity is more suited to democracy is like suggesting Marlboro is better suited for your health than Newport.

I am not indoctrinated by Christianity.

No. You are indoctrinated by leftist secular humanism.

Fair enough. However, I am not comparing the "leftist secular humanism" (whatever that may be) to Christianity, am I?

I am comparing two religions that I am not a follower of and I have no interest nor stake in who wins that comparison. I have interest in seeing facts prevail.

Unless, of course, you would like to suggest that this "leftist secular humanism" somehow favors one religion over another, which would be plain silly.

Well, Christianity is your enemy number one. Probably because it happens to be the dominant religion in your country.

BTW, you better pray to God that Christianity stays on #1. Muslims are not as tolerant with secular huminsts like you.

And don't come up with Turkey as the shining example of Muslim secularism. Its laws may be secular, the mentality of the people is not. A Turk who announces publically that he has left Islam will henceforth be despised by his neighbors. Especially on the countryside, but not only there.

I am not comparing the "leftist secular humanism" (whatever that may be) to Christianity, am I?

No, you aren't, but I am. Secular humanism is just yet another belief system. A religion even.

Then you have quite a screwed up definition of "religion". Not every system of beliefs is a religion.

I believe the sky is blue. I don't know whether it is. Blue is the color that my brain translated it to.

By definition, religion deals with supernatural beings capable of influencing natural things.

Secular humanism "deals with supernatural beings capable of influencing natural things", by believing in the nonexistence of such supernatural beings.

But it doesn't matter. My point was that you are at least as indoctrinated as anyone else, and that point stands, whether what you are following is a religion or not.

My point, in case you've missed it is that I can compare two religions without being partial.

Secondly, religions believe in existence of supernatural. "Leftist secular humanism" firstly does not deny it, secondly is not exclusive of religion (I am an atheist, not "secular humanist", whatever that is), and, thirdly, is not a religion.

Perhaps, I will abstain from an argument comparing atheism to a double hamburger.

Felix K wrote:Secular humanism "deals with supernatural beings capable of influencing natural things", by believing in the nonexistence of such supernatural beings.

Semantics, Felix, nothing more. You don't like "deals", use "believes in", instead.

My point, in case you've missed it is that I can compare two religions without being partial.

And in case you missed it, I raised doubts about your impartiality. Doubts that are at least as justified as the doubts that you may have with my impartiality.

BTW, according to your reasoning, Leonid would be just as able to compare Christianity and Islam without being partial as you... and oddly enough, he arrives at slightly different results...

And in case you missed it, I raised doubts about your impartiality. Doubts that are at least as justified as the doubts that you may have with my impartiality.

No, you did not. because membership in whatever you call "Leftist Secular Humanism" does make my attitude to Christianity more negative versus Islam.

Your membership in Christianity does, however.

BTW, according to your reasoning, Leonid would be just as able to compare Christianity and Islam without being partial as you... and oddly enough, he arrives at slightly different results...

I would be much interested in seeing his point of view. Does not mean I will agree with him. But, at least, I suspect he might be more impartial than you.

No, you did not. because membership in whatever you call "Leftist Secular Humanism" does make my attitude to Christianity more negative versus Islam.

Islam does not even remotely have as much political influence in your country as Christianity. So it seems only natural that from your perspective, Christianity is a more dangerous opponent than Islam.

Felix K wrote:

No, you did not. because membership in whatever you call "Leftist Secular Humanism" does make my attitude to Christianity more negative versus Islam.

Islam does not even remotely have as much political influence in your country as Christianity. So it seems only natural that from your perspective, Christianity is a more dangerous opponent than Islam.

I see your point. However, I see both Christianity and Islam as dangerously. Christianity dangerous in its attempt to enforce its morality upon us and Islam through its flying planes into our buildings.

Islam through its flying planes into our buildings.

Wow. If I had said this, you would have taken this as proof of my anti-Islam bias...

You got me there. Not every Christian is lecturing me on who I should merry, or how I shoul behave either.

Eugene Berkovich wrote:

Felix K wrote:

No, you did not. because membership in whatever you call "Leftist Secular Humanism" does make my attitude to Christianity more negative versus Islam.

Islam does not even remotely have as much political influence in your country as Christianity. So it seems only natural that from your perspective, Christianity is a more dangerous opponent than Islam.

I see your point. However, I see both Christianity and Islam as dangerously. Christianity dangerous in its attempt to enforce its morality upon us and Islam through its flying planes into our buildings.

Who puts his foot in his mouth more?

Yes, I put my foot in my mouth. And I admitted it. For you, on- the other hand, it is a daily occurrence.

All:

Remember to submit your CLPT and UPC predictions. Deadline is a little more than an hour away.

Felix, you and Zeus let me down again. Fortunately I had the former champ in my corner, but he didn't give me his pics either, so here are mine (which I submitted through the site):

Barca - Benefica 3-1

Juve - Arsenal 2-0

Villareal - Inter 2-2

Milbn Oly. Lyon 1-1

How will I know Eugenius pics?

Wait till Boye posts them on his site?

BTW I don't even know my own UEFA picks as I submitted them via the site without saving them. (Don't receive confirmation mails either)

Mark and Boye were supposed to send their CLPT picks to me, but I didn't receive a mail of either of them. Hopefully they sent their picks to each other.

Oops! I submitted mine on the website a few days ago (both competitions). Sorry, I didn't realise.

Did Boye mail his predictions to you?

In this case, no harm done on either side...

No, nobody has mailed me this week about the CLPT. For reference and comparison purposes, I will post my picks on here for both tournaments:

CLPT

Barca 2-0 Benfica
Juventus 2-1 Arsenal
Villarreal 1-1 Inter
AC Milan 2-1 Lyon

UPC

Zenit 1-0 Sevilla
Schalke 2-0 Levski
Steaua 1-0 Rapid
Middlesbrough 1-1 Basel

Not sure if I am still part of the tourney or not but just in case. 8) If not you guys can keep 'em anyway.

CLPT
1: 2-0

2: 3-2

3: 1-2

4: 1-0

UPC
1: 2-1

2: 1-0

3: 1-3

4: 0-2

Shit missed the deadline!

In case the thing still counts here my predictions;

1-0
2-0
3-0
1-2

I'm sure they'll still count. Here are Boye's UPC predictions:

1 2-0
2 2-0
3 2-1
4 3-0

I agree with Mark, and I'm sure so does Boye - his own CLPT predictions arrived late at my account... :P

And here they are:

1 2-0
2 1-0
3 1-1
4 1-0

Eugene's UPC predictions: (sorry for taking so long to post them. Only just noticed them in my e-mail):

1 1-1
2 2-1
3 2-0
4 3-0

Is Falc on his way to winning another title?

His being eliminated in the CLPT and not participating in the UPC didn't exactly help that cause.

Boye,

please recount Falc's score on CLPT matchday 3. Since your result was good enough to advance, regardless of his result, there's really no need to deny him his three match points (or to grant yourself a 10 prediction points organizer bonus in the group ranking, for that matter)!

As a result, I have achieved the almost impossible feat of scoring the second highest prediction score of the round and still remain without one single match point... 8)