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While some are fantasizing about calcio Italiano cleaning up their act, it should be known that Rossi, the temporary commissioner for the FICG, is a former board member of Inter. Yesterday, he was making a big fuss that amnesty is not an option. Clearly, he was sending a message to the sports tribunal as they were deliberating the case. Was he scared that Berlusconi was making a logical argument when he said that no clubs should be punished? Inter stands to be the biggest benefactor if the clubs are sent down (they still won't win the scudetto). So much for a cleansing act. Perhaps more corrupt than what has been alleged by the media.

Pramzan - We will hear in a few hours if anyone is found guilty and of what. But if by chance this tribunal do not find Juve guilty, will it be for good reason in your opinion?

No. Because if giuve is not found guilty then no team will be guilty.

What "good reason" would be behind in aquitting these teams?

I can't see how giuve gets out of this and the other teams don't. But let's say for the sake of arguement that it does happen, then my answer is a pretty surprised "yes".

Well the lovin didn't last long. BAH

Who ever said Juve gets out of it and the others don't? And if that happened, so what. Maybe there was good reason for it. But it won't happen. Juve will be the sacrificial lamb to appease to people like you.

As much as you guys hate Moggi, if not for him, Italia is not world champion

I think that Falc just out did himself as far as the most stupidest statement ever made on these boards.

You gotta be f-u-c-k-i-n-g kidding me!

Falc - "Juve will be the sacrificial lamb to appease to people like you."

Right. Because it's people like us that have a say in Serie A. LOL!

giuve will be punished BECAUSE THEY BROKE THE RULES.

I'm not sure anything should happen to Milan, because, as their lawyer states:

"Respect for the rules is in Milan's DNA"

Does anyone have any good articles on the case in English? I still don't know what matches were proven to have been fixed? I heard some people talking very candidly in a radio broadcast, but these could have been guys with an axe to grind against Moggi/Juve, as none of their claims have been substantiated anywhere else.

Pramzan

What Moggi is accused of is "undue influence" on the head of refs and the refs themselves. The undue influence comes from his lobbying for certain refs and from the "specter" that a ref's career could be compromised if he screws over Juve.

Ok..let's assume that Moggi was in the wrong for this...which I believe he was. That is not match-fixing. Match-fixing is FIXING the result of a match before it happens. (Ie. the ref WILL throw the match). Undue influence doesn't GUARANTEE match fixing. It just makes it somewhat more likely a ref might favor one side or the other. Both are wrong, but match-fixing is MUCH worse.

Now, if you believe undue influence is wrong, then you better send Milan down to B as well. You don't think Galliani had influence on the refs?? LMAO! Moreover, if you want to talk about throwing a match, did you read the transcript of Milan's Leonardo helping Udinese rig that final match two years ago that helped them get into the CL? That was MUCH worse than anything I've read on Juve...and yet who is the sacrificial lamb??

It's just a joke because the anti-juve groups are on a crusade. But you know what? I don't give a sh*t. If it takes Juve having to take the bullet for all the others that were part of this broken system...then so be it. We will take the fall for all the others and hopefully it will lead to a better Serie A in the long-term.

By the way, if you told me before the WC Final that Italy can win if I agree to Juve in Serie C, I would have signed on the dotted line.

FORZA AZZURRI

You know. My cousin the Inter fan sent my son a full Juve kit. It now fits him. I've had mixed feelings about letting him wear it truthfully but I want to believe in redemption despite the cynical part of me, which is pissed as hell Milan got a slap on the wrist. (Now I want all Juve players to go to Roma (in the CL presumably)). It's not my job to be an advocate for Juve and in time we should know more facts or at least those the prosecuting authorities presented.

Piero mentioned about taking Juve in C and Azzurri with a fourth star; me, Pabs, even Falc would take it too but the circumstances are such that the club has to bounce back. They had the masters of working the system (and obviously better than the bums at Milan) but enough already.

I just read the SI article on the Azzurri--nicely complementary on the Azzurri and not so on ZZ--but the author referred to the issue as match-fixing. The public opinion conflict is different than what the principals and their lawyers see. Hopefully justice is served with punishment fitting of the crime. Speaking of which….

Berlusconi is saying no responsibility for clubs--only individuals. Will he line-up in front of or behind Moggi?

Muck Filbn

Forze Jube!

Serie B and 30 points for Juve!!!

Milan stay up but lose 15 points.

Fiorentina and Lazio (7 points) go down.

Could Juve still make the playoffs for promotion?

While some are fantasizing about calcio Italiano cleaning up their act, it should be known that Rossi, the temporary commissioner for the FICG, is a former board member of Inter. Yesterday, he was making a big fuss that amnesty is not an option. Clearly, he was sending a message to the sports tribunal as they were deliberating the case. Was he scared that Berlusconi was making a logical argument when he said that no clubs should be punished? Inter stands to be the biggest benefactor if the clubs are sent down (they still won't win the scudetto). So much for a cleansing act. Perhaps more corrupt than what has been alleged by the media.

And?

Inter, as far as I know, haven't been accused of anything.

It's pretty bloody fair that they have a say if you ask me, they've been playing on an unlevel field and still not done too shabbily.

Shopping time!!! Can we have the price list please?

LOL

These sentences won't stand. All 4 teams will appeal and they will be reduced.

By the way, there is no way in hell Juve would have been promoted being -30 points at the start. They'd have to win Serie B by around 20 points to even have a shot. No way.

My guess is that it will get reduced to about -15.

Just as I figured, Milan gets to stay in A. I'm sure their penalty will be reduced as well.

I wonder if Lazio and Fiorentina can squeeze their way back into A on appeal.

Just to show you how whacked this tribunal was...

they suspended Paparesta for 3 months!! The guy did NOTHING. He was the one locked up by Moggi in the locker-room.

What's he guilty of--being locked up for too long? LMAO

Piero - The last play off spot last season was won with 66 points.

There are 126 available if I'm not mistaken. Juve would need to win almost 100 of those.

How many players do you think they can hold onto?

Fuquit

There is NO WAY Juve is taking 100 points in Serie B. That is a brutal campionato..believe me.

I think some will stick around. Nedved and ADP will be there. Bojinov has joined. Not sure if Marchionni will stay. I'm sure they'll hold on to quite a few.

You don't seem too upset, because it was expected or deserved?

Have we placed a suicide watch on Falc yet?

Of course it was expected

I knew as soon as the witchunt began, that Juve would face some stiff penalty. No surprise.

No evidence of match-fixing..no trace of money changing hands that we've heard of....and now this verdict.

I'm dying to hear what grounds they had to strip Juve of their 05-06 Scudetto. Not only did this tribunal not have jurisdiction to do that, but the investigation and wiretaps didn't even cover that period LMAO

This is too funny. Only in Italia.

Well, like I said, if this helps clean up the entire system and make Serie A better in the long run, I'll take it.

When Fiorentina were relegated to Serie C for some kind of accounting problems what was it exactly?

I talked to Falc; he's going to Philadelphia. So far so good.

30 points - this is Kafkaesque...sadistic too.

I was worried that Falc might be flying out to Parma to do a Zidane on someone, so yeah, Philly is good

LAUGHING MY F-U-C-K-I-N-G ASS OFF!!!! This is almost as good as winning the World Cup

Moggi gets his your welcome

I am literally laughing my ass off! It doesn't get better than this.

Juve in Serie B at -30 points and Parma is in Serie A.

He Falc.... take that, douchebag.

I'm off to celebrate

Just got back from the beach and it's gorgeous out. I poured myself a nice gin & tonic with a fresh slice of lime.

Hey Pram! Bet that bianco tasted real good tonight! Better than f-u-c-k-i-n-g New Year's Eve.

BELLISSIMO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! La juve e` in Serie B!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Leonid wrote:30 points - this is Kafkaesque...sadistic too.

Indeed. In case Juve have a bad start into the new season, they might even see themselves fight against yet another relegation. they may need to make 80 points in order to avoid a relegation playoff - and even Juve cannot take 80 Serie B points for granted.

Well, the fact that the Parmigiani aren't gloating at the misfortune of others should soften the blow at least. Damn and I thought my team was hated in England

give Parma a few years. They be going down on merit soon enough.

If it wasn't for Gilardino saving them with a hat-trick in that playoff versus Bologna 2 years ago they'd already be there (before his transfer)

30-point hit is massive.

I cannot predict how many points we will get until I know which players are leaving. If the EXACT same team from last year was to stay, then I think we'll be back in A for next year.

Capello is already trying to raid his pet dog Emerson to join him at RM. As well as Zambrotta and Cannavaro.

Pabs - As Piero said, Juve will probably have their points deduction reduced to 15. They should be very safe in Serie B with that and could well push for promotion.

I love it when football goes mental!!!

Mark - I'd be having a drink if the red scum or the gooners were sent to the Championship.

RVN has requested a move.

what Ali lableau said.

Have a great weekend everybody. ITALIA: CAMPIONE

Might as well close this thread. Serie A has now become the official joke of soccer. Let these bastards suffer. Europe's worst nightmare will come true. There will be an NFL style European league. The writing is on the wall. This farce of a hearing, teams looking to get compensation for players injured on NT duty, the control for TV money. The CL will die. The G14 clubs will take over. The Belgium league has now become more attractive than Serie A. Have your laughs. Appreciate this WC championship. Calcio Italiano will go down all because fucking idiots with no sense of justice think they did something good.

And for you fools from Parma, thank Moggi for giving us this WC. His imprints were all over this team, starting from the coach to the players. It was Juve that led the 1982 champion and it was Juve that gave us the title this year. Italy is nothing without Juve. Hard to accept but so very true. Maybe Donadoni will reflect over the weekend and decide not to take the Azzurri job. He has just been screwed royally.

Ali

Yeah, I can't pretend I'm all class when it comes to things like that. I'd be ripping the fuck out of Scousers and Gooners if it happened to either of them.

I heard about Ruud. Ronaldo seems certain to leave too, despite his and CQ's denials. I just can't see how he can stay now, as if he's not given shit by United, he definitely will be in other grounds, and it will be relentless. Fuckin waste really, but he made his own bed, and despite his apparent mental strength in penalty shoot-outs and on field situations, I think he's too young to be able to handle what would be coming off the field.

Do you know what happened for Fergie to pick Saha over Ruud? This was way before the Ronaldo incident. No disrespect to Saha who had a good season (and is far better than that bidone Cisse, despite their respective reputations in their home country), but Ruud is our best finisher since Denis Law, and to lose him makes us look like a selling club.

I don't have a clue as to who could replace him. I like the look of Rossi, but that's an awful burden to place on the shoulders of a teenager, no?

Either way, Ruud deserves a place in the category of United legends for his phenomenal scoring rate (especially in Europe), no matter how sour his departure has become.

I was thinking the same thing when I just read the wire reports of Ruud not coming back. Add to that Cronaldo's situation. They only have 1 proven striker in Rooney.

I can very well see Luca Toni going from now relegated Fiorentina to ManU. He's 28 so he'll only have 2 or 3 good years left in him.

You guys act like this is a surprise

We all knew it was coming. When a witch-hunt builds momentum in Italy there is no stopping it. I guess the Agnelli family isn't so powerful afterall

Look, this stuff will get appealed. It's the Italian way. These sentences will be reduced. Mark my words.

I'm going to carefully read the verdict and see what kind of justification and evidence they have used for the sentence.

Hey Falc--due process doesn't exist in Italy. They stripped Juve of the 05-06 Scudetto without even having investigated that year LMAO!

turn the title of the thread back already !!!!

Felix

"even Juve cannot take 80 Serie B points for granted."

Exactly. Never mind we haven't a clue yet what would be Juve's lineup in a few months.

Mark - I'll answer you on the English football thread.

Our Italian friends have much to discuss here.

Finally justice was served

Talk all you want of injustice. Today we have finally seen that justice does exist in Italia.

This was neccessary. Serie A will bounce back.

And shame on you Falc for glorifying and praising a cock-sucking piece of shit like Moggi. He brought this on Serie A and our calcio. It was those who are removed from Juventus who made our calcio stand hight above all others.

And don't worry: Cannavaro, Buffon and camorenisi will land on their feet. They will get paid millions for their services elsewhere even if it's abroad. And they will still get called to the NT. It doesn't matter where they play their club football. That's what you fail to understand and comprehend. Idiot.

Still laughing my f-u-c-k-i-n-g ass off that we owe a debt of gratitude to Moggi for winning this world cup

Falc, you are one deranged individual. Thank goodeness I really don't interact with you in real life because I would suggest to all that you are one deranged person and I would suggest to those not to communicate with you. Honestly. How the f-u-c-k could anyone believe the shit your write? Moggi is a f-u-c-k-i-n-g crook for Christ's sake and you are so blinded not to see that. Un-f-u-c-k-i-n-g-believable.