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Pramzan,

do you believe that Juve will be spared Serie C? What about Milan et al? Do you expect them to stay in Serie A?

In the meantime, Berlusconi still complains about the "unthinkable" prospect of Milan missing the European Cup! I can't believe that. I mean, what kind of signal would it send with regards to the credibility of Italian football if Milan not only stayed in Serie A, but were even allowed to play in Europe? I could figure that UEFA would be less than amused in case Italy names AC Milan as Champions League participants...

on the back of a WC win.

WOW. Only 2 wins in 10 is absolutely dreadful.

Berlusconi is such a self-absorbed man he probably missed the point where unthinkable turned into very much thinkable. Also, considering his popularity, especially outside of Italy, whenever he pleads Milan's case, it's going to provoke reaction opposite to what he intends. Surely he's not the only Italian loving AC Milan, so he better keep quiet.

Leonid wrote: so he better keep quiet.

Amen to that!

Falc - Look, you are an idiot. Why? Because you can not call anyone a fool for QUESTIONING Donadoni being considered as CT of the Azzurri because of lack of experience.

All of these decisions are QUESTIONABLE, regardless who the candidate is. Therefore you're an idiot.


Couldn't have said it better myself.

Prediction from GDS

Sentenze: finirà così

Moggiopoli: stasera, dopo le 19, il presidente della Caf Ruperto farà conoscere i verdetti. Juve, Fiorentina e Lazio in B, Milan in A ma senza Champions

Juventus in serie B con fortissima penalizzazione, retrocessione anche per Lazio e Fiorentina, ma con un handicap inferiore (6-7 punti), Milan in A, privato però dell’Europa.

Prima della campana dell’ultimo giro della lunga camera di consiglio della Commissione d’Appello federale, i giudici diretti dall’ex presidente della Corte Costituzionale Cesare Ruperto hanno maturato quest’orientamento sanzionatorio, convinti della colpevolezza di tutti e quattro i club coinvolti nella prima puntata del processo di Moggiopoli, seppure con livelli di gravità differenti. Stasera dopo le 19 sapremo se le ultime ore hanno portato a significative correzioni di rotta o no.

=====================================

The sentences will be announced after 7pm tonight Italian time. Why they're waiting until 7pm is beyond me.

Juve in B starting off with alot of minus pts. Lazio & Fiorentina in B with not so many minus pts. Milan remains in Serie A but with no Champions League.

LMFAO@Juve in B, Parma in A! this truly is a great day in Lega Calcio. Andatte giu e state giu! Hai sfrutato i poveri per troppo tempo! MALEDETTI!

What I'm also LMFAO@ is the thought that Milan didn't get relegated. That's hysterically pathetic. But I love it since Juve got relegated and Milan didn't. That's funny.

I think it has to do with the close-of-business idea. Two of the clubs are listed on the stock exchange. Not just that. If the news were rather devastating, the entire market would take a hit. Which would be undesirable.

Felix - Serie C was an outside chance. It's what the tribunal propsed but Juve said, we'll take Serie B and minus some points.

Casati - Yes: for all those years that they stole and for all those games they fixed, it's finally payback.

I hate them. I hate them because they took away from me one of the things I love the most: talking about football, talking about Serie A.

As far as I am concerned, it is USELESS to discuss Serie A from the late 90s til today. Sure they only have evidence of match fixing over the last two years but Moggi has been at it for years with the most notable season being 1997/1998.

For years we accused them of match fixing and for years we were laughed at and called jealous while all along IT WAS TRUE.

Screw YOU giuve!!! LADRI!!!

The sentences will be announced after 7pm tonight Italian time. Why they're waiting until 7pm is beyond me.

This way, the verdict will be broadcast live on TV in prime time. That's why.

pramzan wrote:Falc - Look, you are an idiot. Why? Because you can not call anyone a fool for QUESTIONING Donadoni being considered as CT of the Azzurri because of lack of experience.

All of these decisions are QUESTIONABLE, regardless who the candidate is. Therefore you're an idiot.

As for Donadoni being the coach, I have to say I'm surprised. The federation did something new: they hired a young guy with little coaching experience.

I like Donadoni. He cuts a good image, an honest one. He doesn't talk much and when he does speak, he doesn't say crap. Maybe the federation wanted a fresh start with someone they feel has a clean, non-Moggi association.

He has a very hard job ahead of him and although I want him to succeed, I don't think he will.

If he gets the Azzurri qualified for Swiss-Austria08, then I will consider him a success. It would be more than what Bearzot achieved post Spain82.

BTW, you mentioned Mazzone, fool. They could have given the job to a group consisting of Bearzot, Lippi and Sacchi, and Livorno still would have dropped 5 or 6 in a row.

Once again, you show how little you know of anything. What the hell does Moggi have to do with this decision? Was it Moggi that picked Lippi. If so, you should get on your knees and lick Moggi's culo. Anyone is questionable. There is no perfect candidate. But as is always the case, you have to be the biggest cuccio from our thread. You miss the point of the debate and always rely on name calling instead of making a reasonable argument. As I stated, Donadoni brings experience as a player, which will be very valuable in this position. If you don't recognize that, then continue to make idiotic statements.

Donadoni wins Zoff backing
Friday 14 July, 2006

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Dino Zoff has applauded the appointment of Roberto Donadoni as the new Coach of the Italian national side.

The former Milan winger was named as Marcello Lippi’s successor last night and the legendary goalkeeper is in favour of the move.

“I think that Donadoni can do well,” said the 1982 World Cup winner and former Italy boss. “It seems to me that he has worked well in his career to date. He seems very prepared.”

Donadoni, who will turn 43 in September, enjoyed a stunning life as a player even if his coaching pedigree is rather limited.

But FIGC official Demetrio Albertini, a former teammate, insists that Donadoni can build a reputation with the national side.

“It was decided to go with someone young who could turn into a great,” said Albertini. “I gave [commissioner Guido] Rossi a list of possibilities. In the end, we didn’t want to disturb any club Coaches.”

Azzurri team manager Gigi Riva also backed the move. “He’s a good guy, someone who did well as a player with that great Milan side,” said the Cagliari legend.

“He’s a good Coach too, so much so that Juventus were thinking of him to replace Fabio Capello. He’s a good choice because the players are right behind his appointment.”

Born in the province of Bergamo, the former midfielder started his career at Atalanta in 1982 before he was snapped up by Milan in 1986, a move which enabled him to win everything on the planet for the Rossoneri.

Donadoni then spent time in America with the New York Metrostars, returned to Milan for a two-year stint after which he opted to end his playing days in Saudi Arabia with Al Ittihad Jedda.

As a player he won five Serie A titles, three European Cups, two Intercontinental Cups, three European Super Cups and four Italian Super Cups. He also won an Arabian championship.

The winger also enjoyed a glittering international career where he appeared in two World Cups [1990, 1994] and two European Championships [1988, 1996]. He scored five goals in 63 caps.

After retirement, Donadoni was handed the Lecco job in Serie C1 during the 2001-02 campaign when he was actually sacked before being recalled in the same campaign.

He moved on to Serie B side Livorno in 2002-03 where he caught the eye of fellow Second Division outfit Genoa. However, his switch to the port club in 2003-04 saw him almost immediately sacked.

Livorno, by now a Serie A side, recalled him in 2004 where he kept them in Serie A before quitting during his second season after a row with fiery President Aldo Spinelli.

Donadoni, who will be presented to the media on Tuesday, will make his debut on the bench in the August 16 friendly against Croatia.

Donadoni will make his competitive bow, in European Championship qualifiers, on September 2 against Lithuania and then face France in Paris four days later.

They took away Serie A from you. Boo, hoo, hoo. Yes, a Serie A that will become Europe's biggest joke. I laugh at the stupidity that I read on this thread. Italy may very well not qualifty of Switzerland 2008. Not because of Donadoni but because a made-for-media scandal destroyed calcio Italiano. BTW, has Parma found an owner yet? Do they have the finances to stay in Serie A? Or will Tanzi's billions somehow find a way to float the team? Get a life fools & losers.

Falc - " As I stated, Donadoni brings experience as a player, which will be very valuable in this position. If you don't recognize that, then continue to make idiotic statements."

Where did I say his experience as a player is not "valuable"? Where did I even mention in a positive or negative fashion his experience as a player?

His experience as a coach makes him questionable. Period. Since you don't see that, you are an idiot.

Falc - "BTW, has Parma found an owner yet? Do they have the finances to stay in Serie A? Or will Tanzi's billions somehow find a way to float the team?"

Don't know. Don't care.

But I am happy that justice is being served today.

As much as you guys hate Moggi, if not for him, Italia is not world champion. Cannavaro was the heart and soul of this side. Pramzan made some silly statement that Juve had nothing to do with Cannavaro being the player he was in this tournament, once again showing his lack of acumen when it comes to analyzing this sport. Where was Cannavaro two years ago? How many had his career written off? Then comes Moggi who makes a sweetheart of a deal to get him to Juve, where Cannavaro finally becomes a champion. Where he was laid to rot at Inter (this upcoming season's Serie A champion, then again ...), his play was revitalize at Juve. Or was that just a mirage as Moggi's cheating produced those two scudetti? Grazie Moggi.

Italy may very well not qualifty of Switzerland 2008. Not because of Donadoni but because a made-for-media scandal destroyed calcio Italiano.

It wasn't the media that created that scandal. And in case Italy fails to qualify for 2008 because of this scandal (don't think so, BTW), then it is those who committed the crimes, not those who uncovered them, that are to blame.

pramzan wrote:Falc - "BTW, has Parma found an owner yet? Do they have the finances to stay in Serie A? Or will Tanzi's billions somehow find a way to float the team?"

Don't know. Don't care.

But I am happy that justice is being served today.

Yes, a bigger farce than the WC of fours years ago. Alleged as the greatest scandal in calcio Italiano with over 30 defendants all wrapped up in less than 10 days. What a joke.

Ask giuve they think it's a joke. Ask Moggi.

Ask the millions of fans if they think this is a joke. Justice is served and IT WAS LONG OVERDUE.

Take it like a man, pussy.

Felix K wrote:

Italy may very well not qualifty of Switzerland 2008. Not because of Donadoni but because a made-for-media scandal destroyed calcio Italiano.

It wasn't the media that created that scandal. And in case Italy fails to qualify for 2008 because of this scandal (don't think so, BTW), then it is those who committed the crimes, not those who uncovered them, that are to blame.

Felix - This whole thing is about investigations from Italian prosecutors of the 2004-2005 season. The investigation ended in June of last summer. There was no investigation of the season just completed. Prosecutors did not carry the case forward based on these wiretaps. These taps were then illegally leaked to the Italian media before the conclusion of this past season, when Juve was trying to hold on to its lead. This scandal has been media driven from the beginning. And what is worse is that those who investigated the matter came to conclusions based on theories without any concrete evidence that any match was fixed. Unfortunately, this kangaroo court will do the same. Calcio Italiano will not recover from this quickly. But I guess that is good news for the rest of Europe.

You mean ask the million of Juve haters like you if this is a joke? Have not you and your fellow Parmigiano been laughing this morning?

Stop embarassing yourself and take it like a man.

You're a quasi attorney in the States but you're nothing here in Italy.

Markino, continue to make a fool of yourself. We all know that you are pissed off at me because I write logical arguments while you comport yourself to personal attacks. Is it necessary? Are we on the pitch where you have to use trash talk with hope that it may upset me? You know what I use to do on the field when idiots like you tried to insult me and hope to get me off of my game? I would either laugh or give them an evil stare. And you know what happened? They got off of their game in frustration while I ate them up on the pitch. So go ahead and resort to you childish antics. Enjoy this day as much as you can. And be smart and keep it here towards me. Don't be stupid to gloat in front of your wife and your in-laws. As much as you try to make me the enemy, I still look out for you. So follow my advice.

Falc - Va a cagher.

Who gives a fuck what you did on the pitch? ROTFLMAO!!!

By the way, Cannavaro was a stud for the Azzurri, before he went to Juve with Parma and Inter and he will be stud after Juve.

Again, more stupid, idiotic statements from a moron who has his tongue up every Agnelli family members' ass that he just can not reason for nothing.

Now Cannavaro became the player that he is because he played with Juve. Unbelievable.

Pramzan - Like Zidane, you have some anger management issues. I do hope that lashing out at me on these boards keep you from any form of domestic violence. Maybe we should get Palo to analyze you.

Cannavaro was always a stud but never a champion. He became a champion through Juve when everyone else had him written off, not only for gli Azzurri but calcio in general. He fell into that black (nerazzurri) hole and was brought back to life with a champion mentality at Juve. I know you refuse to recognize that but it is the truth. Without Juve, without Moggi, we have another disappointing WC. Thankfully, that was not the case. Grazie Moggi.

Maybe you should take your head from out of your asshole.

"Grazie Moggi"

LOL!

Yes. Grazie Moggi INDEED!

Thank you for bringing giuve to Serie B.

pramzan wrote:Maybe you should take your head from out of your a*sho*e.

Actually, I am trying to get yours out of it!

And by the way, it was YOU who went on a rant by calling us all fools for various posts from Vieri to Donadoni.

Therefore it was you who dicked out.

Who's got the issues?

Pramzan

You're justice will be served sounds quite hollow. You know why? Because there is no mention of Milan. Those fckers are going to get off practically scot-free and all you care about is Juve. Where is the indignation for Milan getting out of this?

I have to correct you again on something else. There is ZERO evidence of match-fixing here. I've practiced in both the US and Italy so yes I do know the laws of both countries.

Juve is being charged with sporting fraud because Moggi was trying to influence the selection of refs. Influencing the selection of refs is not proof of match-fixing. Under the Italian sporting statutes, it COULD be interpreted as sporting fraud, which it probably will be by this tribunal.

There is ZERO evidence that money/bribes were given in exchange for favorable calls being made by refs or players throwing games. That's match-fixing.

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That said, I welcome the verdict today as long as it is JUST for everyone involved. If Milan gets off scott-free, then YOU and everyone else should be OUTRAGED today....if you aren't, then you are a hypocrite.

All

In case la GDS is correct, do you expect the clubs involved to appeal the court's decision or not?

Felix - Yes, I expect all of the defendants to appeal. Part of me is wondering if this tribunal set itself for failure intentionally. During the hearing, they did not allow any of the defendants to submit evidence. While the focus is on the clubs, especially Juventus, there are a number of referees who stand to have their careers ruined by inuendi. The tribunal refused them to present any video evidence of games where it was alleged that yellow cards were given so that players would then be suspended for their match against Juve. And we are not talking about household names when it comes to these players. The players who were suspended were from small clubs and are unknown outside of their clubs.

There was a system. It is known as lobbying. Teams complained about certain officials who in their view did not do a good job in their matches. It is no different than the whining we see here concerning certain calls. It happens throughout Serie A, throughout the soccer world, even at the amateur level. I have no doubt that the referee assignors had a cozy relationship with Moggi and other managers among Serie A. But the soccer world is smaller than most people know. Those involved do not live in any vacuum nor are they separated by great walls.

So I do expect appeals and the appeals themselves have a deadline to meet the UEFA schedule. IMO, if Rossi had any balls, he would withdraw all Italian sides from Europe for this season so that a proper investigation and hearing could be conducted. That would show integrity. Instead, we have a rushed kangaroo court making decisions that have a great economic impact for all of calcio Italiano. These fools really are shooting themselves in the foot.

Piero - You say sporting fraud, I say match fixing. I like the sound of match fixing better.

How about this? Define sporting fraud and while you're at it, define match fixing.

You define it one way and i'll define it another. Who cares? We're not in a court of law.

Reminds me of a song: "you say tomato and I say tomaato".

As for AC Milan, if they're not getting Serie B as punishment, there must be a good reason otherwise they would get the same punishment.

Appeals? Boh???

I'm not so sure that's going to happen and if it does, they're going to throw it rightfully out the window.

So if Juve by some chance is not punished today, or receives a minor punishment in your view, is it for good reason?

As usual, you've missed the point.

What is Juve found guilty of by the tribunal? What is AC Milan found guilty of? Compare the two. Is one offense worse than the other? If so, then it's easy understand why one is punished more severely than the other.

And more importantly: how many times were violations committed?

If the tribunal has evidence where giuve did, let's say, 10 violations and AC Milan did one or two, you can't expect that AC Milan's punishment will be just as severe even if it would be the right thing to do.