World Forums

Mate:

Do you recall what teams Croatia beat other than down-on-its-luck German team that barely escaped Mexico?

Jamaica?

Japan?

How about not being able to beat powerhouse Australia and Japan in 2006?

Remember the group of death in 2002?

It was the group of your death.

Pabs wrote:Hosting Continent gets Extra Spot ?

as we know, for 2010 they will indeed but how about 2014 ? What I'm asking is: does this mean South America get 5.5 in 2014 ?

seeing as how Brazil always qualifies anyways, I sure hope not. I hardly see how this is logical. Maybe palo is right. Euro's are pussy's because we are allowing this to happen to ourselves

It hasn't always been a rule that the hosting continent would get an extra spot.

Asia had 3.5 spots in 1998 and were up to 4.5 only because Europe offered them an additional play-off spot - and since there were two co-hosts there, that was IMO a reasonable thing to do. Only two spots for all of Asia minus Japan and South Korea would have been a little unfair, IMO.

In 2006, Europe hat 14 spots, including the hosts - that's just as much as they would have had in '02 had they not offered a playoff berth to Asia. There's really no reason in my view why Europe shouldn't at least get 13.5.

Regarding 2014, I expect South America to get 5 spots, including Brazil. But of course, it's way too early to predict anything. Should one or two African teams reach the quarters in 2010, chances are that Africa will keep their world cup berths quota, just like Asia did after South Korea's success...

I blame the voting mechanisms at FIFA. Most definitely promises to increase or keep constant the number of WC berths of certain confederations played a role in the elections for the FIFA presidency.

increased spots

I remember in the old days of these boards when the Iran thread was pretty much the Asian thread. As I recall, for 2002, AFC insisted on an additional spot. Initially when FIFA balked, AFC members walked out of the meeting.

To which UEFA/FIFA came back with the 0.5 settlement. It turns out that this particular playoff featured Ireland vs Iran with the Irish winning.

Platini has to grow a pair of balls on this issue. Europe has to stand firm and stop allowing itself to get taken advantage of. Europe are indeed pussy's. Let Asia walk away, who needs them ? UEFA needs a leader so they can get 1 or 2 more spots back. The WC needs Europe more than Asia.

Come on guys, its all about politics. The allotments are not divided based on competition, it is based on getting votes. Why do you think Blatter keeps the presidency?

Palo - If your Mexico is such a great side, why is it that it can only arrange friendlies IN the US? Who, BTW, always kicks their butt.

Good Point

Recently the US played in Sweden, South Africa. Mexico never make these trips. They are just looking for the quick buck by playing in the Southern US (Pheonix, LA). That's why they are CONCHACAF's best....

FLAC:

Good point.

The Mexican Federation, in cohoots with the USSF and a company named Zoom contract to bring in the Tricolor to the USA for a set number of games. The USSF is guaranteed a certain amount of money for the year and Mexico's federation keeps the rest. The TV ratings and attendance are through the roof. Mexico's game attendance in the USA increased by 26 % last year and the federation points to Ego Sanchez as the culprit.

Opponents and venues are chosen by Zoom and the USSF with Mexico's sin of ommission as the partner in crime.


Because of this commitment, Mexico is unable to travel very far. Alos keep in mind that we run one of the most profitable leagues in the world and team owners are reluctant to lend out their players more than they already do. But basically , you are right. Mexico is a football whore with the USSF and the Mexican Federation as their pimps. It's a damn crying shame.

And while I give you a hard time, it truly is stupid for Mexico not to broaden their horizons and take on some European friendlies. While I am not a big fan of friendlies, it will at least give players some experience of what styles others play.

WCQ in Durban: Fromer Austrian player shot dead

Ex-Profi Peter Burgstaller erschossen
Ehemaliger Salzburg-Tormann tot auf südafrikanischem Golfplatz gefunden
Linz - Der 43-jährige ehemalige Profi-Fußballer Peter Burgstaller ist am Freitag auf einem Golfplatz in Durban in Südafrika erschossen worden. Er sei vom Sicherheitspersonal auf der mit einem Elektrozaun gesicherten Anlage mit einem Brustschuss gefunden worden.

Burgstaller, früher Tormann beim SV Salzburg, befand sind seit Freitag in Südafrika. Die südafrikanische Polizei hat die Ermittlungen aufgenommen, man geht von Raub als Tatmotiv aus.

Peter Burgstaller führte zuletzt die Event-Agentur BSP in Salzburg-Hallein. In der Hafenstadt Durban sind über das Wochenende mehr als 3.000 Sportfunktionäre und Journalisten zu Gast, um die Vorrundenauslosung für die Fußball-WM 2010 in Südafrika zu verfolgen. (APA/dpa)

The former Austria Salzburg goalkeeper Peter Burgstaller died this morning in South Africa on a golf course in Durban. He was shot dead, his mobile phone was stolen by the murderer.


German National team manager Oliver Bierhoff was robbed this morning in a luxury hotel in Durban. The delinquents took his mobile phone, passport and his briefcase with documents regarding the upcoming WCQ.

http://www.netzeitung.de/sport/wm2010/823670.html


Well Done, Blatter. You wanted the WC in fucking Africa all so you can get re-elected by African voters and this is what we are seeing already on Day 1 (the Preliminary Draw). Whoever is planning a trip to the 2010 WC in South Africa need to get their head examined.

AFC Up First:

Australia, Korea, Japan, Saudi Arabia, Iran have all recieved a bye to the next round.

Group 1: Australia, China, Iraq, Qatar
Group 2: Japan, Oman, Bahrain, Thailand (cake-walk for Japan)
Group 3: South Korea, North Korea, Jordan, Turkmekistan (a Derby of sorts)
Group 4: Saudi Arabia, Uzbekistain, Lebanon, Singapore (Saudi in a stroll)
Group 5: Iran, Kuwait, UAE, Syria (UAE may pose problems for Iran)

CONCACAF's turn

- Winner of Dominica vs Barbados plays USA

- Winner of Turks & Caicos vs St Lucia plays Guatemala

- Winner of Bermuda vs Cayman Islands plays Trinidad

- Winner of Aruba vs Antigua & Barbuda plays Cuba

- Winner of Belize vs St Kitts & Nevia plays Mexico (easy win for Belize)

- Winner of Bahamas vs British Virgin Islands plays Jamaica

- Winner of Dominican Republic Republic vs Puerto Rico plays Honduras.

- Canada vs St Vincent & the Grenadines

- Winner of US Virgin Islands vs Grenada plays the winner of Costa Rica

- Winner of Surinam vs Monteserrat plays Guyana

- Winner of El Salvador vs Aguilla plays Panama

- Winner of Nicaragua vs Netherland Antillies plays Haiti

UEFA up Next:

Group 1: Portugal, Sweden, Denmark, Hungary, Albania, Malta

Group 2: Greece, Israel, Switzerland, Moldova, Latvia, Luxembourg

Group 3: Czech Republic, Poland, Northern Ireland, Slovakia, Slovenia, San Marino

Group 4: Germany, Russia, Finland, Wales, Azerbijian, Liechtenstein

Group 5: Spain, Turkey, Belgium, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Armenia, Estonia

Group 6: Croatia, England, Ukraine, Belarus, Kazhkstan, Andorra

Group 7: France, Romania, Serbia, Lithuania, Austria, Faroe Islands

Group 8: Italy, Bulgaria, Ireland, Cyprus, Georgia, Montenegro

Group 9: Netherlands, Scotland, Norway, Macedonia, Iceland

Early Comments:

Group 1: Portugal should be tested by the big 2 from Scandinavia. Sweden & Denmark in the same group yet again just like EC'08 qualifiers. Hopefully the Scandinavians join the rest of the civilised world and don't invade the pitch again This is by no means a cake-walk for Portugal.

Group 2: I actually think Switzerland will come away from this group. Israel have proven themselves to be formidable at home gainin many draws, but now they have to start doing something in away games.

Group 3: could go either way

Group 4: Germany should qualify comfortably.

Group 5: Spain vs Turkey should be close

Group 6: hehehe, Croatia vs England yet again. A lot of travelling for the England team as many teams are in EE.

Group 7: France in a walk. Romania are cyclical. They will qualify for a tournament, then not qualify in the next. I can't see France not qualifying.

Group 8: How many times does Italy draw one of Georgia, Belarus, Lithuania ? This time it's Georgia yet again.

Group 9: This group has 1 less team. Scotland & Netherlands should be close. We will not see another 6-2 aggregate score like we did when they played in that playoff a few years back.

Damn! I did not want England again in a qualifier.

I have been looking at the recent game on tape. To be sure, we are a better team than England and the pitch helped even hide this a bit. However, I have to admit that we did not exactly dominate them nor would had even the sun were shining.

England are not a bad team. I honestly believe that with a world class coach, they can become more consistent. They at least should be a 2nd if not a quarter finalist every time at major tournaments. Mind you, such a coach would need time to not only work over the NT, but also to help change the English footballing establishment from top to bottom.

It's the same old story. Why England cannot produce confident, arrogant, play making footballers is beyond me. Why so many of them are prone to catastrophic failure under pressure is a mystery. It always wasn't like that. Occasionally, you do get a good player like Hoddle or Gazza, even a Rooney, a player who could do much were he given the midfield support.

Still, England has a lot going for it. Most of all, England will be out for revenge, especially against the team that "humiliated" them in a major qualifying event. Most of all, I know us Croatians. We excel exactly when we are dismissed and ridiculed. We often do not know how to handle success. I hope we're not setting ourselves up for an "upset".

Then again, I have smelled winds of change even in Croatia for some time now. I smell hunger. I smell passion. And, these younger boys are talented.

Damn! Somebody is going to be disappointed. For shame. Shucks, can Europe get some more qualifying slots?

By the Way Guys

Seriously, this allotment of slots is fair. Until some time has been given for other continents to gather experience, mathematical weighting of number of countries and populations should play some role.

You will get no argument from me against the current crystal clear reality that Europe is the dominant footballing power right now. Much as I love South American football, only Brazil and Argentina rate, and even the latter has had character issues these past 2 decades.

But, other continents, especially Africa, should be given an opportunity to cut their teeth in impossible to simulate conditions at the WC. Once "adequate" time has passed, maybe there should be mixed qualifiers?

I will tell you this, if there are mixed qualifiers, I honestly believe South America first and then Europe will benefit most. Guys, South America is one tough place to play, where the home teams do that much better in front of their own fans. Most European teams would not have it easy in home and away against Colombia, Equador, Paraguay, Uruguay, and Chile.

CONCACAF and Asia would be screwed.

Winner of Belize vs St Kitts & Nevia plays Mexico (easy win for Belize)

FORZA BELIZE!!!!

mate wrote:By the Way Guys

Seriously, this allotment of slots is fair. Until some time has been given for other continents to gather experience, mathematical weighting of number of countries and populations should play some role.

While this is debatable, I find that the format of the European qualifying tournament really does suck. 9 groups would have been OK had Europe been given 14 places, or at least 13.5. But I do not like at all the idea that one Euro runner-up will have to stay home without going to the playoffs.

They should either have made it 8 groups, even if that would have meant larger groups. Or two rounds of play-offs (bottom two runners-up play off; winner joins other 7 runners-up in the playoffs for 4 WC berths). Or perhaps a two-stage format (1st round: 14 groups of 3 or 4. Winners and runners-up into 2nd round. 2nd round: 7 groups of 4. Winners and 5 best runners-up into WC finals; two other runners-up to play off for final spot).

Maybe it's just a matter of personal preference, but personally I find the notion that most runners-up are given a chance in the playoffs while one of them gets no shot at the WC at all much more unfair than the idea that some runners-up are qualified automatically while others need to play off...

Felix

I agree. Somebody is going to be bitterly disappointed. It might indeed be a country like Croatia or Scotland, that's how tight it is going to be.

Maybe Europe's last place team should play off against Asia's 5th?

Imagine how coveted that spot would be!

why doesn't Europoe give their top teams a bye ?

60 percent of European teams would not make the WC out of any other confederation either. Look at the powerhouses in group 2 and 4?

LOL

Palo

The funny thing is that while the South American teams I mentioned might be formidable in a home and away qualifying format, many do nothing in tournament play.

On the other hand, Europe has many top teams capable of playing top football: Holland, France, Italy, Germany, Portugal, Spain, Turkey, Croatia, and England are capable of going far in tournaments. Spin it any way you want, but South American football has badly declined this past decade, blowing advantages in producing skilled and improvisational players.

Europe leads in football right now in terms of quality. Period.

Europe has three good teams and very good leagues that are graet only because of players come there from all over the world. Remove all foreign players from the EPL (including other Euros) and what do you have left?

Southamerican local leagues have suffered but individually, they still produce the best players in the world.

Name the top plyers n the world right now.

Palo

Wrong. Apart from Argentina and Brazil, the Americas do not at all produce players better than, if at all equal, to the top Europeans. France, Italy, Portugal, Sweden, and even England right now have players who are some of the best in the world at their positions. Even Africa has declined in producing special players.

And, countries like Croatia, Germany, Denmark, Greece, Turkey, Serbia, Macedonia, and even Switzerland are once again producing better players. All these teams have top youth prospects. Croatia alone has Petric, Modric, Edvardo, Kranjcar, and a number of more players getting ready for big European careers.

Who is tops from Colombia? Paraguay? Ecuador? Peru? Chile? Uruguay? Even Mexico really has one star abroad in Marqueuz.

The tide has turned. Players like Henry, Ibrahimovic, Ronaldo, and Nesta are as good as it gets, way surpassing those South American countries I mentioned. Italy alone has a small legion of class at nearly every position. And as much as I bash England, they do have guys like Ferdinand, Rooney, and Terry who are at least international class.

Call it as it is. Hell, at this rate, Australia will surpass Mexico soon enough, as the Aztecs never seem to have hit a wall, being as insular as the English. Mark my words: until Mexicans plays in top leagues abroad in number, Mexico will never make an impact at a WC.

You yourself know this.

Sense and Sensibility

http://football.uk.reuters.com/uk/news/ ... 744EB7.php

Owen's comments came in the wake of Croatia's 3-2 victory at Wembley on Wednesday and the teams being drawn together again in Sunday's qualifying draw for the 2010 World Cup.

"I don't think any of the Croatian team would get into our team," the Newcastle United striker, who missed the defeat due to a thigh injury, was quoted as telling the Sun newspaper on Monday.

They sure make them stupid now a days, don't they?



There is no better way to arouse and motivate a Croatian than to tell him that he is inferior. And, surprise, surprise, we actually can play when we want to, even at a level beyond what Michael Owen might muster.

The economics and branding of club football does so much to distort real football quality. Small wonder why so many allegedly decent club players do jack at the WC when faced with world class opposition that can play outside of rigid, play not to lose coaching schemes.

I really hope Croatia destroy England. Now it is personal, even for me, when a bust like Owen shoots his mouth off. And, if these types of comments keep up, I know our team will prepare diligently and play with a good measure of respect for the opponent.

Seems like we have some sense and sensibility.

What Michael Owen has ever done for England, apart from showing much promise in 1998?

Whenever his country needs him he's injured. Shut the fuck up already, dolt.

The most ridiculous moment of his career happened when he left FC Liverpool for Real Madrid, to win the Trophy, which was won then by...Liverpool -

Mate:

You obviously don't do your homwork. Marquez is not even the best Mexican defender in Mexico.


Any Euro as good as Messi? Aguero? Even a decadent Roanldinho> ? Kaka? Robinho? If Euros are so good, why do most Europen tems play foreigners?

Leo

Guys like Owen exhaust my considerable England sympathy quotient. The guy is yet another in a long line of hyped busts who ultimately fail to deliver. I have no doubt that Eduardo will prove to be a bigger impact player at both club and NT level.

Moreover, England have no defender who has consistently played both for club and NT as has Robert Kovac. This guy has played for the likes of Bayern, Juventus, and been a stalwart for the Croatia NT. Compare that to the catastrophic failures in defense exhibited by Ferdinand, Campbell, and even Terry.

Again, English players alone seem hell bent on mustering as much Croatian anger as possible. Not smart.

Served.

For Sulla & Mate: Christian Karembeau & audience laughing when England is drawn with Croatia

November 25, 2007 Durban South Africa

http://vinovo.magnify.net/item/QZ22HYH8CN4DDGN5

Yes, I too was laughing.

Not sure I agree with bashing Owen's accomplishments.

He is stupid. He proved that when he went to Real Madrid.

But he's done his job in big games for England even after France98. Sure he's spent 50% of his career on the bench with injuries. But when he's healthy, I can't think of too many other strikers I'd rather have in big games. Crespo is the only exception.

It's not his fault if England have disappointed because he certainly hasn't.

When you go after "my" guy, it's a fair-minded critique, when I do after "yours", it's bashing.

Watch your language, Markino:) Rightly or wrongly, I only expressed my opinion.

Did I understand you right, that after Crespo, Michael Owen is the No.2 in the world?:)

His last "BIG" game for England, I believe, was in Moscow -

Leonid wrote:When you go after "my" guy, it's a fair-minded critique, when I do after "yours", it's bashing.

Watch your language, Markino:) Rightly or wrongly, I only expressed my opinion.

Did I understand you right, that after Crespo, Michael Owen is the No.2 in the world?:)

His last "BIG" game for England, I believe, was in Moscow -

First off, who's "your guy"? Secondly, what's wrong with "bashing"? Sorry I offended you.

I know you expressed your opinion, and I expressed mine. I don't think I criticized you for expressing your opinion.

To answer your question, no. You did not understand me correctly. I said that in big games I can only think of one other striker I'd rather have in a big game and that's Crespo.

If you interpret that as "No 1 and No 2 in the world" then LOL!

Markino

I'm only being bashful...and no offense was taken:) Besides, I like Crespo, even when he's playing for the wrong team:)

Markino, come on, Michael Owen?

I can't recall what he has done at club or NT level to really put his team over the top. He was really supposed to be the next great English striker, something that never materialized.

I'm taking into account his injuries. It's just what I see in his football skills and intelligence. He just doesn't seem to have much, certainly not worth the hype.

Leonid wrote:Markino

I'm only being bashful...and no offense was taken:) Besides, I like Crespo, even when he's playing for the wrong team:)

Ok. By the way, who is "your guy"?

Markino

Good question... There are some lads, in no particular order:

Fabregas, Messi, Toni, Ronaldo, Xavi, Iniesta, van Persie.

mate - I think we can agree he was pretty good at France98, bringing England level against Romania after coming on at the 72nd minute, and scoring that splendid goal against Argentina in the round of 16.

At E2K, I can't remember much about England but I believe Owen was there and he scored a goal. England were crap in that tournament.

At WC2002 (let's not forget Owen's performance in the qualifiers, scoring quite a few goals, more importantly a hat-trick in the 5-1 drubbing of Germany in Munich), he woke up in the elimination rounds (surprise, surprise) scoring against Denmark in the round of 16 and scoring that nice goal against Brazil to put England up 1-0 in the quarters, only to have England (Seaman in particular) collapse and lose 2-1.

At Portugal04, he scored the first goal to put England up 1-0 against Portugal in the quarters, only for Rooney to get injured, leave the game and, give Eriksson the excuse to play 11 behind the ball and eventually lose.

At Germany06, he was not a factor and eventually tore ligaments in his knee.

My point is, for England, he has done plenty. For club, he has not. He has done his job, which is to score goals and many times he scored them in big games for England.

I always acknowledged his mark on WC 1998, where I too thought he was the coming of a new type of English forward. For me, he never did anything special subsequently. England simply was poor after that. In WC 2002 they were never going to win against a much superior Brazil, who gifted him his well taken poacher's goal.

In Euro 2004 he was okay, nothing special. He just isn't enough of a presence to bring his team up a notch or two. He isn't world class, not by a long shot in my book.

By the way, I am absolutely excited by Croatia's chances in WC 2010. We have some young guns ready to take their chances on the world football scene: Da Silva, Petric, Modric, Corluka, Kranjcar, and Rakitic have real potential. We haven't seen this kind of caliber in abundance since the Boban and Suker generation.

Sure, a lot can happen and these boys need to prove themselves. But, they the first steps with what they showed in the Euro qualifying campaigns, not least against England.

I hope they can stick it Owen.

"I always acknowledged his mark on WC 1998, where I too thought he was the coming of a new type of English forward. For me, he never did anything special subsequently. England simply was poor after that. In WC 2002 they were never going to win against a much superior Brazil, who gifted him his well taken poacher's goal.

In Euro 2004 he was okay, nothing special. He just isn't enough of a presence to bring his team up a notch or two. He isn't world class, not by a long shot in my book."

Well if you think his goals weren't anything special for WC2002 qualifying and those against Denmark and Brazil at WC2002, I don't know what to say. Of course they were never going to win against Brazil at WC2002 but who in his place could have done better?

They gave up two goals against Brazil on two mistakes that certainly wasn't Owen's fault. He did his job (it wasn't a poacher's goal, by the way) and put England up 1-0.

His job is not, and has never been, to bring England up a notch or two. I can't think of any striker for any NT who has a job like that.

I repeat: his job has been to score goals and he has done so, especially in big games, for England.

Markino

Some strikers absolutely bring something extra to their squad, making it more likely that they will win. I think of Davor Suker and Alen Boksic as classic examples for Croatia. How about the old Ronaldo for Brazil?

Hell, even today, Croatia having Edvardo makes a huge difference for us. We are that much more potent because he is a reliable and improvisational forward who will take his chances, never mind that he can create chances. Croatia has long been a decent possession team with a tough defense. We have suffered a lack of creative midfielders and, most of all, forwards with punch and the ability to take half a chance.

I personally believe we are on the cusp of correcting both deficiencies, but especially with regards to forwards: Pertic, Edvardo, and Rakitic emerging.

We'll have to agree to disagree on Owen in this regard. I just can't see his goals as something a range of other forwards couldn't have done. I will even go one further and say that Owen is not the match of Rooney, a forward that does bring in something extra to England. A more extreme example is Schevchenko with the Ukraine back in the day.

I agree that in general a lot of teams are coached so that forwards are passive targets expected to capitalize on clearly crafted opportunities. But, I like to think there are forward who can go beyond this and create opportunities: Henry, Eto, Ronaldo, and such.

Mate, take this to the bank buddy. England WILL qualify for the WC 2010 in S.A. (or by then it may be in the UK).