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Gerrard has done it for Liverpool. Not for England though.

Glenn Stromberg wrote:I don't think anyone can deny that Michel Owen during a period of his career was a world class player and that he scored a couple of important goals for England. He never reached the heights people expected though, much of it because of his injuries. Frankly no English player won any big games for years, isn't that what all this is about?

Disagree. He had world class potential and I once believed he would achieve it.

But, looking back now, he didn't make the grade.

Did he make the grade, didn't he make the grade? He won Ballon d'Or. That is a recognition far beyond just being a talent yet to come, I'd say he made the grade in their eyes. One can disagree of course, but it's hardly a controversial opinion.

He didn't reach his full potential, that I can agree with, and today he is nothing of that sort.

David Beckham - overhypee #1

Michael Owen - overhypee #2.

Frank Lampard - overhypee #3.

Falc wrote:

agentesecreto wrote:M&M:

Wasn't part of your motto, big time players win big time games?

Haven't you figured out after all of these years that the bar keeps changing with this guy? He should run for political office although he probably would look a lot like Howard Dean.

Really? Prove your point. I have NEVER altered my definition.

I think we can all agree that for a 5 year period, Michael Owen was World Class.

Geez, he won the Ballon d'Or for crying out loud.

Just because he's an idiot does not mean he was never world class.

Was he over-hyped? It depends on what you mean by over-hyped because if the English press got their panties all moist because this guy scored big goals and won the Ballon d'Or, then the answer is "no".

I can't blame them for that.

But we can blame them for Beckham and it appears that Lampard ain't all that.

agentesecreto wrote:M&M has proven his point. Owen is a big time player.

No, no, no.

You got it all wrong.

It's not "big time". It's "big game".

Now repeat after me: "Big Players Make Big Plays In Big Games".

And those who do it REPEATEDLY are big game players, not big time.

David Beckham has been as much over hyped as ridiculed by the British tabloids. Since most people consider him over hyped, I wonder if he can be considered hyped at all.

Leonid wrote:David Beckham - overhypee #1

Michael Owen - overhypee #2.

Frank Lampard - overhypee #3.

Agreed.

Overhypee #1 - "Cabrito" Tevez

PÉSSIMO!!!

Markino

Looking back on it, I have to say I am a bit surprised that Owen won it, even in 2001. In fact, it is telling that he beat out Oliver Kahn and Raul.

Call me a cynic, but it makes me wonder about these kinds of awards. As I discussed before, money and mass marketing is really skewing pop culture perception of footballing quality. I suppose occasionally this infiltrates the sense and sensibility of voters who might know better.

Mate

do you know how works the vote for le ballon d'or ?

ps : Owen did deserved it, whatever you say

Damn them French!

mate

the following should please you...the German coach was saying sunday that he wouldn't be surprised to see Croatia in final of the euro..He views your team as the underdog

Tronche

The best way to defeat Croatia is to flatter them.

See, the Germans are obviously smart, as they will woo their way to victory over Croatia. The English are obviously dumb, as their insulting us only brings the most fight and passion from Croatians that easily can be disarmed with some ego stroking.



Seriously, we will have our hands full with a rising German team that won't underestimate us. This is not 1998, as our young players are still developing and yet to prove themselves in a serious knockout competition. You better believe the Germans will try to physically intimidate us, although we are no physical slouches.

Penta:

Tevez is certainly better than the boy wonder, Robinho and Diego together.

"Big Players Make Big Plays In Big Games".
"Big Players Make Big Plays In Big Games".
"Big Players Make Big Plays In Big Games".
"Big Players Make Big Plays In Big Games".
"Big Players Make Big Plays In Big Games".
"Big Players Make Big Plays In Big Games".
"Big Players Make Big Plays In Big Games".
"Big Players Make Big Plays In Big Games".
"Big Players Make Big Plays In Big Games".
"Big Players Make Big Plays In Big Games".
"Big Players Make Big Plays In Big Games".
"Big Players Make Big Plays In Big Games".
"Big Players Make Big Plays In Big Games".
"Big Players Make Big Plays In Big Games".
"Big Players Make Big Plays In Big Games".
"Big Players Make Big Plays In Big Games".
"Big Players Make Big Plays In Big Games".
"Big Players Make Big Plays In Big Games".
"Big Players Make Big Plays In Big Games".
"Big Players Make Big Plays In Big Games".

Hopefully this will make M&M happy!!

Carlos Tevez taught the Sao Paulo players everything they know

Tevez plays like TRUE Brasilain. Not a made for TV one.

Tevez played 4 times against São Paulo when he was at Corinthians: 3 losses and a tie. I think he learnt more than taught, hehehe.

He lost the final of Copa America 2004 when Diego was a starter , the final of this year´s copa america when Robinho was the main player of the competition. Not to mention the last friendly 3x0. But maybe games against Brasil aren´t Big games, heheheh

TEVEZ É PÉSSIMO!!!!

bah. You just hate Tevez cause he's not good looking.

Palo,

hehehe, besides that too. he is probably the ugliest player ever side-by-side with Amaral(one of Zagallo´s prefered players).

Tevez has some great skills and is often in the right place at the right time as a forward. However, he has a lot of proving to do in helping win titles at both club and NT level. So far he has been solid as United, although not yet as effective and assassin like as he should be.

In their last league match, he missed some point blank shots. In fact, he plays much better when Rooney is in the line up with him. Surprisingly enough, he yields to Rooney, which says a lot. Contrast this to Cristiano Ronaldo, who put 2 in the net in the last game where Carlos couldn't do it.

Carlos has to prove he is the real thing. He hasn't yet shown sustained world class performances.

Mate,

summarizing: he sucks , hehehe

If Manchester United had no "really" great players as Rooney and Ronaldo and depended on "Cabrito" Tevez to be the craque of the team, they would be fighting against relegatios as his previous team West "Ruim".

Tevez actually helped save West Ham with his timely goals last season from relegation. His arrival marked a turn in fortune.

Obviously, it is different at a club like Manchester United, which isn't struggling and has lots of excellent players. In some ways, it is harder to take a top team to the pinnacle than it is to make a poor team a little bit better.

This also explains why Diego Maradona was world class.

Tevez was outstanding for West Ham at the end of last season. He was the only reason they stayed in the Premier League.

He hasn't quite found that form for United, but I'm confident that he will.

PS: I'm aware that Carlos didn't endear himself to the Brazilian public during his spell at Corinthians, but he comes across as such a gentleman over here.

I'm sure it must be very difficult for him to be moved around from one club to another - particularly as he can't really speak English, but I haven't heard any complaints from him, which you do get from some imports.

Either way, I'm positive his stay at United won't end as acrimoniously as that complete cunt Heinze I sincerely hope that Gabriel breaks both of his legs very soon, and never plays football again.

As for his twat of an agent, a firing squad sounds good. Forza Patrice Evra!!

Mark

I too feel Tevez will get there, but time will tell. He doe have grit, which is important to do well in the EPL. Right now, Ronaldo follwed by Rooney are the most important players for the Red Devils. If Tevez finds that form, they will be an incredible team for a long time to come. These 3 alone are some serious potential.

I still feel United need a more controlling midfield general, somebody like Keane was, or even Scholes in his prime. You can tell United have yet to reach their peak, that they can offer more. They need to avoid dumb setbacks, like that untimely fiasco against Bolton 2 weeks ago.

Call me crazy, but I still think Arsenal are flattering to deceive. The Gunners were so lucky to tie United in London. They're just waiting to be exposed.

Johan Cruyff:


"Look, the thing about Inzaghi is that he can't actually play football at all. He is just always in the right position."


He is:)

Mate

I'm in total agreement with you on all points raised.

I have faith in Carlos, but like you say, he hasn't played as well as we would have expected. I do believe he'll come good, as Ronaldo took time to develop into the world class player he is today.

Ronaldo, of course, is certainly the main man at Old Trafford, and has been for about 18 months now.

The midfield has been a problem for quite some time. Scholes and Giggs are well into their 30s now, and there has never been an adequate replacement for Keane. Owen Hargreaves is a pretender to his throne, but I'm yet to be convinced. Nani is young and will take time to fill Giggs' shoes, even though he has scored some wonderful goals.

Scholes' long term replacement appears to be Anderson, but he's only 19 and we shouldn't expect too much just yet.

Arsenal? I don't understand what's happened there. They were very inconsistent last season, with pretty much the same personnel they have now. I just can't believe that players like Adebayor, Flamini and Hleb can become great all of a sudden. They've never shown that ability before. I too believe they will be exposed sooner or later.

They could only manage a 1-1 draw at Newcastle tonight, which made up their game-in-hand, but it's still a four point gap, which I'm not comfortable with. We simply should be destroying garbage like Bolton. I'd hate to lose the league because we're losing to junk, while more than holding our own against the other contenders.

Mark

Arsenal is going to get theirs when they play United, Chelsea, and Liverpool again. They're going to have trouble with the big guns. And, I think they'll suffer a few slip ups like they did tonight, as teams are realizing that Arsenal is beatable.

The team I actually am a bit afraid of is Chelsea. The Jose controversy is starting to be a bad memory and they are grinding out results. Let's face it, they have some decent players after all. They too are within striking distance of 1st place.

Sir Alex needs to break out the checkbook and get that one midfield general needed to tie everything together. Once that happens, United will be complete.

In all fairness, tonight Arsenal played without Flamini, Fabregas, Hleb and Van Persie.

True, Leo, but I'm rarely fair when it comes to club football :P

Those are not at all bad players, but still, this is Arsenal.

Mark

I'll be fair with you and Mate. Arsenal is an English (hold the smirk) team I like the most.

Plus, they have one the best Croatian players in Eduardo Da Silva!

Mate

We established quite some time ago that Croatia isn't Eastern Europe:)

Certainly not the most impressive eastern European state.

mate wrote:Tevez actually helped save West Ham with his timely goals last season from relegation. His arrival marked a turn in fortune.

Obviously, it is different at a club like Manchester United, which isn't struggling and has lots of excellent players. In some ways, it is harder to take a top team to the pinnacle than it is to make a poor team a little bit better.

This also explains why Diego Maradona was world class.

Well Diego was Diego but he won crap while at Barca (four years and only a King's Cup to show for it) while at Napoli he won two titles and a UEFA Cup; much better.

Napoli's performance in the European Champion's Cup was crap as well as one was a first round exit while the other was a second round elimination.

As great as Diego was, it goes to show that you need more than just an all time great to win on the biggest of stages.

Tevez has been a complete gentleman? I'm surprised as I remember him vividly saying in a press conference back at Germany06 that if he had to take a PK in the PK lottery that he would aim for the goal keeper's head.

Not very gentlemanly.